Permanent Magnet Alternator Mod

[allanrps]

Figured out the headlight relay, really pretty simple stuff. Just forked a stator wire to provide trigger voltage. AC/DC doesn't matter because the circuit is immediately disconnected from the smallest amount of voltage. Stock circuit has no diode. OP has been updated.

Perhaps some would benefit from this being added to the tech section?

 

[arfstrom]

What no Diode? Which bike do you have? That thread I posted, that went to 4 pages, The wire diagram for the 80/81 clearly shows a diode. Then the Thread guys, the actually opened a relay, and found a second diode. So what am I missing? I have pics of my diode, I know Scorpio has gone to Radio Shack to get a diode. Soo weird that there is no Diode? I know that you could jump it. I know you can do many things. some of which I have done, on purpose, mostly on accident.

 

[allanrps]

My bike is 78. I did notice that the later bike's headlight relay wasn't connected straight to the stator. I may be confused, but I thought the reason you needed the diode was because you were using a non-stock switch type relay. Whether or not there is a diode inside the stock relay I can't confirm. Wouldn't be surprised

 

[arfstrom]

There is my problem, me, Scorpio, and the two guys on that thread, (I think) have 80 or newer. The older bikes I don't' know. I would strongly suggest a Signature, so that guys like me can respond appropriately. Maybe you put it on question 1, now that we are on page 2, I could have looked up that wire diagram.
The 80 and new bikes, have a line coming from the stator to the relay, with one diode on that line. All that diode does is keep electricity from returning to to the stator. All the white lines, go to a diode device, to keep the feed back from getting to the stator. Also it is the purpose of making the voltage DC (direct Current) From the stator to the Diode the electricity is AC (alternating current) ((Think your home is generally at 120v AC, your car is 12 DC)) You need the diode to protect various electronics that are not capable of dealing with alternating current. Granted your headlight doesn't' care. but your turn signal, your sensor units, might.

How to put a signature? Go to the control panel, go down to signature, and at least put your bike model, I like the 3digit model number, that will tell us if you have a bobber, chopper what era bike you got. some of us, will assume that the brake system is disk, drum based on that number. If you look at mine, I put items I will be going to the store to get, and forget which one to get. (sparkplugs/oilfilter) Help us, help you!

I just pulled up a wire diagram for the 400D, the stator white goes straight to the rectifier(6 diodes)

Did you download the 45 meg file with all the support manuals, with the wire diagrams?

 

[blabla]

Would you be willing to post an exact list of parts? like direct links what to buy? Im curious about what year Banshee and ZL600 parts. as well as what brand of 3 phase regulator. I really wanna do this mod, but I'm relatively new to all this!

 

[arfstrom]

http://www.hughshandbuilt.com/product/3-phase-regulator-rectifier/
I found this one, but it is 43, from Hughs Hand built. There is a thread about a ready made PMA, that is available via Mikes XS, which is Hughs, (whom has been found lurking on here)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/120943639503?lpid=82&chn=ps for a stator flywheel, going for 28 currently
Banshee stator plates, seem hard to be come by, the brother site, (XS650.com) had a few postings that on the surface, I didn't go any further, (just googling) instead of doing taxes, or getting butterfly seals)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/171041245366?lpid=82&chn=ps going for 25 bucks. Our parts are getting harder to come by. you might find it easier to use a cereal box, and one of the templates in the LAB so that you save some $$.
http://www.xs400.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134173&postcount=1 timmyT posted I kow I have posted some too. (I found timmy's first) You might need to print a couple of them out first, and make sure that you adobe settings are okay with the perspective. (some people will set it print original size, or %of the size, or fit to paper) So measure 2wice, and cut once.
http://www.mrmetric.com/metric-fasteners/m16-x-1-5-metrix-hex-8-8/
I have no Idea if that would be a good place to get bolts, I would strongly consider your local auto parts store, or hardware store. for that stuff. I included it because it was on the list of On-line pickups from Post 1, of this thread.
http://www.xs400.com/forum/showpost.php?p=142180&postcount=1

The stuff marked at Home depot, I will let you go to Home Depot, or your local hardware store. Good luck Some people will get the XS650 mixed up with the 400. That first link, did have a stator plate, simuliar to what was on post one, it was listed in the Shop on the hughs webpage.
Tobie
now where did I put that 10w form????
Maybe I was thinking of PamcoPete

 

[blabla]

Thank you so much for taking the time to do that!

DO you think this stator would work? I don't see why not
http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-Kawasaki...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f387aef41&vxp=mtr

Also...you can use a capacitor instead of a battery, right?

 

[arfstrom]

Seems to be the same as I remember from the original posts. It seems you could go batteryless, but I seem to believe, its good to have some small battery. Look up Drewpies bike, I think he ended up with a battery the size of a cigarette pack. Just enough energy to to prevent a stall out, and such.

-- Ultimately I don't know -- If your going kick only, you should be fine.

 

[blabla]

i appreciate the help my friend. now did you get rid of the oil indicator/neutral lights? i don't understand why i would have to cut the plug then reattach the wires together. and what do you do with the other three wires coming off the other bundle of wires

 

[arfstrom]

i appreciate the help my friend. now did you get rid of the oil indicator/neutral lights? i don't understand why i would have to cut the plug then reattach the wires together. and what do you do with the other three wires coming off the other bundle of wires

I am not sure I know where your at this point. I think your topic has gone away from PMA's? and to LED lighting? Stator specific wires?

I think the thread your looking for now is Drewpies rewire,
http://www.xs400.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5934
We don't want to get rid of stuff, (unless your doing custom) I try to keep it the same, so if/when I sell it, the next owner should not be banging thier heads as hard, as some of us have had too.

 

[blabla]

That thread is a huge help man, but what I'm talking about is the very first step in your guide! Right after you removed the old coil and stator. You mention that there are two wires that connect to weird spots on the engine and that they are the oil and neutral indicator lights. You say to follow the wires by a plug at the front of the battery box, and pull the leads, cut the plug and reattach wires. What I'm asking is why cut the plug in the first place? you know? also in the first picture you show those indicator wires are not attached so thats why I was asking if you removed them.

you know what I mean??

 

[arfstrom]

Step 1: Disassembly

I didn't take any pictures for this process, but it's pretty self explanatory.
Firstly, drain a pint or two of oil and put the bike on the center stand so that oil doesn't pour out of the bike. Put something down anyway, because some oil will drip.
Unscrew the 4 screws holding the "Yamaha" cover, and remove that. Under this, you will see three more screws. Unscrew these and set them aside for later, we will be using them. Then unscrew the casing bolts and remove the crankshaft cover. Unscrew the three screws holding the outer stator coil in the crankshaft cover and set those with the other screws, because we will be using those also.
Now turn the cover over and knock the coils out through the holes. You will notice that coming out of one of the wire bundles are two wires that attach to funky spots on the engine. These are the neutral and oil pressure indicator lights. Follow the wires to the plug up by the front of the battery box. Pull from the plug the four leads that are used for the connection of these two wires and then cut the plug. Reconnect these wires and shrink-wrap/tape.

I Dont think he his recommending cutting the plug, Going to Drewpies re-wire, there is 2 ways of working the wires. Either your going to replace just the wires, and highly recommended using solder to make final connections, or get new connections parts available via MikesXS.
Drewpies plan is to pull off the stator, to get the plugged out of behind the engine, you will have to pull out the pins of the connector. to get it out, and free to play with.
alternatively, you can can do a down and dirty cut the wire an 1.5 inch away from the plug, and strip that portion, and replace the wire from at point out side the stator. This may be easier. but the primary issue is that the energy from the stator, has to traverse whatever connections you make. It is not recommended because that energy can and will cause overheat spots, which has already happened to your unit (most of ours) causing our wires to be brittle.

Amm, Nope, you do not want to lose the blue or yellow wires. Both are needed for the bike to get started. Both go to a relay to allow the bike to be in the proper condition, to allow the bike to start.

 

[allanrps]

blabla,

The reason I cut the plug was because the other connections are for the old charging system and are no longer needed. If you want , you could slice open the writing harness and get rid of the wires all together, but I just taped them up and his them. Are you still working on this? Would love to hear how it goes.

 

[blabla]

Allanrps,

Yeah I'm still working on it! I got the construction done, and lightly bolted on the flywheel + stator. I checked for spark by splicing the new regulator wires into the old ones and splicing in the 3 wires on the new stator to the 3 that the old stator was attached to. Basically I just switched out parts at this point. got spark!

I am a little confused on the wiring still, just having a hard time picturing what the guide says. because if i keep that connection with the 3 new stator wires, the 2 wires previously coming off the field coil have no where to be attached, and therefore neutral + oil lights do not work. Should I splice them into the 3 stator wires?

 

[blabla]

Obviously its a lot to ask for an re-explanation of the wiring, but should I not keep that wiring job that I did? should the wires from the stator go directly to the regulator rather than into the 3 wires that previously came off the stator?

 

[arfstrom]

I checked for spark by splicing the new regulator wires into the old ones and splicing in the 3 wires on the new stator to the 3 that the old stator was attached to.

So you have already done some work, its up to you, an how much you want to work with keeping it "stock" or your going to slam some sort of fix, and then the next owner will post how to fix.

should I not keep that wiring job that I did? should the wires from the stator go directly to the regulator rather than into the 3 wires that previously came off the stator?

If you have dug up any old threads, you will know I am biased against the 3 white wires. They seem to overheat, and etc... at a certain point. As far as the blue/yellow wires, I would tend to leave them in the wire bundles that they are in. If you are cutting out connectors, and reconnecting in new wires, I can see were the diagram, and your bike can easy part ways. I can see why you would, how much easier it is. but right now, you know what a regulator is, the next owner might not.

 

[blabla]

For anyone who's curious, I finished this mod, and it works excellent! the only thing for me was that i dumbly did not put any oil or gasket maker around the gaskets and had a little oil leak going on. I'm gonna have to remove the crankcase cover again and seal it up better, but other than that, this mod is awesome

 

[allanrps]

Glad to hear everything went well! I did the same thing when I first put the thing together. I'll probably add that to the guide if I can fit it. Is your new flywheel marked up?

 

[blabla]

naw haha, it ran fine when i started it up, so i figured i didn't need to do anything to it (I'm still new at this). Timing seems fine, why would i need to change it???

 

[allanrps]

Well while your ignition timing and valve clearance may be fine now, down the road it will be a major pain in the ass if you need to adjust them. I learned this first hand. I'm about to put the stock flywheel on to set everything straight, then reinstall the pma system, hopefully with some more accurate markings.