Hello Everyone.

Ron Cate

RonAmuck
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I am new to this forum. Like been here for 15 minutes. Obviously haven't taken time to read only a few threads.
It is a kind of long story how I wound up with this 1982 xs400J that actually belongs to a friend. but I got it so I will do my best to deal with it. LOL It has actually been kind of fun to work on. When he dropped it off at my place he had just purchased it and it didn't even start. I went through the electrics and it now starts and runs fair, not great. More questions on that later. My question now is in regards to the clutch. some one had left the pit cock open and it completely drained the tank into the engine. I have flushed several times and finaly put some cheap oil into it and took it for a short ride. the clutch slipped pretty bad but never completely gave out. I brought it home and changed the oil and the oil that came out still had a pretty strong gas odor too it. So I changed it again and went for a ride, thinking that maybe the gas was causing the slippage, but also it may have been there before. but it is still slipping bad. So my question(s) 1. will the gas residue cause it to slip and if so can it be flushed out? 2. Is there any way to adjust, the clutch to stop the slipping? 3. Is there anything I should be aware off if I have to remove and replace clutch parts. Whole assembly? plates only? Be drunk or high before I start?
Hope I'm going about this in the right way.
Thanks for letting me in the group hope I can be some assistance to someone sooner or later.
Ron(RonAmuck)Cate
 
When you said you put cheap oil into it, what type of oil was it? Automotive oils have extra additives that will cause slippage.
 
When you said you put cheap oil into it, what type of oil was it? Automotive oils have extra additives that will cause slippage.
Thank you for your reply.

I used 10 w40 but nothing with detergents. Checked the Label (can't remeber what it is called, but know to stay away from anything that has labels in the lower half of the display.
too early in the morning haven't had enough coffee to get my brain working.
when I said cheap, I was thinking in terms of stuff I had left over from pervious oil changes so It was already paid for.
 
You need 20w-50 bike oil made for wet clutch bikes. Make sure you replace the oil filter and clean/drain the sump screen under the bike. Very important.
 
You need 20w-50 bike oil made for wet clutch bikes. Make sure you replace the oil filter and clean/drain the sump screen under the bike. Very important.

50 seems a little thick for the pacific north wet this time of year??
not trying to argue or start an oil thread. Trying to be sure I understand.
Still don't know if there is still enough gas left behind to be causing the slipping or if it is an oil problem or if the plates are just shot. Want to rule out the chemical possabilities before I open up the clutch cover.
 
50 seems a little thick for the pacific north wet this time of year??
not trying to argue or start an oil thread. Trying to be sure I understand.
Still don't know if there is still enough gas left behind to be causing the slipping or if it is an oil problem or if the plates are just shot. Want to rule out the chemical possabilities before I open up the clutch cover.

Got my hands on an owners manual.
20w40 is their suggestion.
 
I run 20-50 in all mine and have no issues..........I am south of you maybe 125 miles........ and yes clean the screen I have found all sorts of crap in all the bikes I have had......
 
Is your bike a DOHC or SOHC? If your running in temps below 40F then a 10w-40 oil would be ok. But you still need to use wet clutch bike oil. 20w-40 bike oil is now very hard to find. I used to use it back 20 years ago but 20w-50 is all that is around now. Even Yamaha don't have it.
 
Is your bike a DOHC or SOHC? If your running in temps below 40F then a 10w-40 oil would be ok. But you still need to use wet clutch bike oil. 20w-40 bike oil is now very hard to find. I used to use it back 20 years ago but 20w-50 is all that is around now. Even Yamaha don't have it.

Good To know.
Thank you.
 
There is virtually NO quality 20-40 with zero detergent in it. DON'T use any CAR oil as said, the problem is NOT detergent and is tied to the anti-friction modifiers that replaced the zinc which they removed. Meaning like said a motorcycle SPECIFIC oil with a JASO spec on it somewhere, it WILL be more expensive oil as you have to pay a premium to pollute the roadside. Motorcycle oils still have zinc in them.

The difference in 10-40 and 20-50 is minimal. But then I have run STRAIGHT 30 and 40 weights all year long in cars and down to +5 degrees with no issues at all. For 50 years.

If the clutch lever pulls in at the first with a small amount of slack like you are not working anything, then it tightens up as you move it the rest of the way then likely the issue is oil problem or dead clutch plates. If the oil it WILL eventually begin to do right as you change the oil.
 
There is virtually NO quality 20-40 with zero detergent in it. DON'T use any CAR oil as said, the problem is NOT detergent and is tied to the anti-friction modifiers that replaced the zinc which they removed. Meaning like said a motorcycle SPECIFIC oil with a JASO spec on it somewhere, it WILL be more expensive oil as you have to pay a premium to pollute the roadside. Motorcycle oils still have zinc in them.

The difference in 10-40 and 20-50 is minimal. But then I have run STRAIGHT 30 and 40 weights all year long in cars and down to +5 degrees with no issues at all. For 50 years.

If the clutch lever pulls in at the first with a small amount of slack like you are not working anything, then it tightens up as you move it the rest of the way then likely the issue is oil problem or dead clutch plates. If the oil it WILL eventually begin to do right as you change the oil.
 
There is virtually NO quality 20-40 with zero detergent in it. DON'T use any CAR oil as said, the problem is NOT detergent and is tied to the anti-friction modifiers that replaced the zinc which they removed. Meaning like said a motorcycle SPECIFIC oil with a JASO spec on it somewhere, it WILL be more expensive oil as you have to pay a premium to pollute the roadside. Motorcycle oils still have zinc in them.

The difference in 10-40 and 20-50 is minimal. But then I have run STRAIGHT 30 and 40 weights all year long in cars and down to +5 degrees with no issues at all. For 50 years.

If the clutch lever pulls in at the first with a small amount of slack like you are not working anything, then it tightens up as you move it the rest of the way then likely the issue is oil problem or dead clutch plates. If the oil it WILL eventually begin to do right as you change the oil.

Thanks
sounds like good info.
definitely not what I have been taught to believe in the past.
 
The newer lightweight oils are for mileage ONLY, take note of how all filters now have to have anti-backflow valves in them where most never did before, the thin oil backflows back out of the oil system before it can cool and thus gives you closer to the dry starts they supposedly stop from happening. It's true thinner oil can get to the pump faster but thicker oil oil never left it and why do you need the thin oil to fill what it never should have left the pump to begin with? Take note also of how many modern vehicles have trouble with startup rattle, it's the thin oil running back into spaces it left because it was too thin.

Of course, the OEM and oil makers will never tell you that. I use thick oil still even in modern engines specced for the thin stuff and zero issues and can't kill the cars. The thinner oils may get you a small amount of mileage back but I'll take the less engine wear any day. I did the math using Motorcraft 5W-20 specs and the gas savings a year is around $7 a year at 15K miles.

In line with what we are discussing above, I am pretty convinced we are also seeing something else..........the need to get anti-wear with no zinc used means that part of the friction modifiers used is part of the synthetic oil program, i.e., you are getting part syn oil even in your conventional oil and they of course wouldn't dare tell you that either. It would utterly p-ss off those who spend big money on the 'better' oil. I use nothing but conventional and in the last few years I've upped the OCI to 9K miles from 6K because the oil does not cook to turn brown then black as quick as it used to. More indirect proof of what I say, syn oil does not burn nearly so fast as older conventional did.

That's Walmart Supertech conventional oil at 9000 mile oil changes in cars, give that some thought. I'm creating money in the way I use engine oil.

Another indicator of using car oil in bike? The early Honda DOHCs I ran would go to not starting correctly almost immediately when using car oil with no zinc, the starter clutch is a crap 3 roller one and it begins to slip almost instantly when you use a modern car oil with those friction modifiers in it. The clutch won't slip on those but useless if you can't even start it.

Bikes still need some zinc as the cam lobes thrive on it, nothing else works better so far and the anti-friction car stuff causes other problems. It's actually TOO slick.
 
The newer lightweight oils are for mileage ONLY, take note of how all filters now have to have anti-backflow valves in them where most never did before, the thin oil backflows back out of the oil system before it can cool and thus gives you closer to the dry starts they supposedly stop from happening. It's true thinner oil can get to the pump faster but thicker oil oil never left it and why do you need the thin oil to fill what it never should have left the pump to begin with? Take note also of how many modern vehicles have trouble with startup rattle, it's the thin oil running back into spaces it left because it was too thin.

Of course, the OEM and oil makers will never tell you that. I use thick oil still even in modern engines specced for the thin stuff and zero issues and can't kill the cars. The thinner oils may get you a small amount of mileage back but I'll take the less engine wear any day. I did the math using Motorcraft 5W-20 specs and the gas savings a year is around $7 a year at 15K miles.

In line with what we are discussing above, I am pretty convinced we are also seeing something else..........the need to get anti-wear with no zinc used means that part of the friction modifiers used is part of the synthetic oil program, i.e., you are getting part syn oil even in your conventional oil and they of course wouldn't dare tell you that either. It would utterly p-ss off those who spend big money on the 'better' oil. I use nothing but conventional and in the last few years I've upped the OCI to 9K miles from 6K because the oil does not cook to turn brown then black as quick as it used to. More indirect proof of what I say, syn oil does not burn nearly so fast as older conventional did.

That's Walmart Supertech conventional oil at 9000 mile oil changes in cars, give that some thought. I'm creating money in the way I use engine oil.

Another indicator of using car oil in bike? The early Honda DOHCs I ran would go to not starting correctly almost immediately when using car oil with no zinc, the starter clutch is a crap 3 roller one and it begins to slip almost instantly when you use a modern car oil with those friction modifiers in it. The clutch won't slip on those but useless if you can't even start it.

Bikes still need some zinc as the cam lobes thrive on it, nothing else works better so far and the anti-friction car stuff causes other problems. It's actually TOO slick.
 
I went and took another long look at the empty oil containers it used with last oil change. I think I will be changing again real soon. "IF" I get the proper oil, should I expect instant good results. By that I mean can I plan on the clutch to quit slipping right away, or should I expect something else?
Exactly what would you recommend for my situation?
 
If it is the 3rd change I wouldn't be expecting night to day changes there. If still slipping it may not be going away. Depends as well on how bad it was slipping, a hard thing to get clearly across in posting.
 
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