A Canadian lost overseas

[ryMY]

Hello everyone!

My name is Ryan Meyer and I am a Canadian who has moved to the Netherlands last year for school. Along with a couple major lifestyle changes, such as mountains at my backdoor being subtracted for the flattest country EVER, I as well do not speak Dutch. I am still learning the language basics, so this makes the process of finding parts (as well as daily life) pretty difficult over here, so I hope I can get a bit of help from you guys. My intentions are to create more of a brat style mixed with tracker and lots of cafe influence, so I hope this works for your visual aesthetic. I do however possess great taste :joker:, which means you can save your knickers from getting in a knot.

I have wanted to build a motorbike for ages, but due to many circumstances in life I have yet to get around to this. I was obsessed with dirt bikes and motorcycles in general when I was under 10-years-old, and the itch has not gone away.

I have purchasing a 1977 XS360 (basically the same bike as XS250 and XS400) last month for €200 and finally borrowed a friends van to move it back to my apartment last week. I convinced a few peers of mine to let me use their shed as a work shop (it's perfect IMO) so I then pushed it over there, purchased the minimal tools that I could afford and started attempting to figure out why it wasn't running.

This is the bike before I loaded it up to take home. (History: Bought it off a gentleman in his late 60s who raced motorbikes his whole life and wanted to fix this one up. He never got around to it so it stayed in his shop the exact same as how he bought it in 2002, for €200 as well. He said that it was running before but it just wouldn't run when I came around.)


I took off the seat first thing and found this… :scratch:*






(this one shows the wiring going to the battery)


As far as I could make out, this was some kind of switch or security for a second battery shut off. I really have NO clue, this is just a guess. Random and useless… I took it out.


So the bike wasn't running and it still isn't running!*
- I had a charged battery(new from previous owner) so I could test with the electric start
- The bike would crank but wouldn't fire
- Gas in tank and petcock set to run
- All electrical works perfectly
- I took out the spark plugs and they were dry
- I tested to see if I had spark and I had spark on both cylinders
- I then took the carbs off to open up and check out
- I cleaned and rebuilt both carbs (were not that dirty)



I put the tank and carbs back on and tried to start it up every way I knew.




To conclude:

The carbs get fuel, but the fuel doesn't get to the cylinders because the spark plugs are still try and firing. I'm assuming a problem with the carbs, however I have just rebuilt the carbs and everything is in order and clean as far as I can tell. The battery is discharged to the point that it doesn't have enough power to crank but still can run the electrical, so I'm using kick start until I can find someone to lend me a trickle charger.

ANY help would be really appreciated to get this biking firing!

Thanks in advance for the warm welcome! *

 

[jmd_forest]

If you really do have spark on both cylinders, the only things left are fuel, timing, and compression. Borrow a compression tester to make sure you have compression. Do a static timing check to make sure you are getting spark at the correct time. If you can set the static timing that should be close enough to get it running. Finally, (and the most likely culprit) is dirty carbs. Try giving the engine a shot of starting fluid. If it runs with starting fluid the problem is almost assuredly dirty carbs. The carbs probably should be COMPLETELY dissassembled and cleaned extremely thoroughly. It is not unusual for newbies to clean the carbs three or four times before they get it right. There are numerous tiny passages and orifices that must be completely clean for the bike to run right. Also, make sure the carb diaphrams are intact and there are no worn rubber pieces allowing air leaks. Do a search for a good carb cleaning thread on this site. I use the detailed guide on xjbikes.com (since I also have an XJ700) since the carbs are quite similar to the the ones on the XS400. Don't just soak the carbs overnight in a gallon of carb cleaner. It will eat up the rubber seals and diaphrams.

 

[ryMY]

If you really do have spark on both cylinders, the only things left are fuel, timing, and compression. Borrow a compression tester to make sure you have compression. Do a static timing check to make sure you are getting spark at the correct time. If you can set the static timing that should be close enough to get it running. Finally, (and the most likely culprit) is dirty carbs. Try giving the engine a shot of starting fluid. If it runs with starting fluid the problem is almost assuredly dirty carbs. The carbs probably should be COMPLETELY dissassembled and cleaned extremely thoroughly. It is not unusual for newbies to clean the carbs three or four times before they get it right. There are numerous tiny passages and orifices that must be completely clean for the bike to run right. Also, make sure the carb diaphrams are intact and there are no worn rubber pieces allowing air leaks. Do a search for a good carb cleaning thread on this site. I use the detailed guide on xjbikes.com (since I also have an XJ700) since the carbs are quite similar to the the ones on the XS400. Don't just soak the carbs overnight in a gallon of carb cleaner. It will eat up the rubber seals and diaphrams.

Thanks for your reply jmd_forest. I have however cleaned the carbs very explicitly and have a hard time believing that it is a carb issue. I know that fuel isn't getting to the spark, but I as well know that the carbs are quite dialled. I started racing dirt bikes when I was 10 years old and have worked on engines ever since, so I'm not your average n00b when it comes to this. I may be a little rusty with certain aspects, but I pay very close attention to detail and I have already taken the carbs totally apart for a second time to ensure that I didn't miss anything (this was my first instinct). Every jet on each carb is clean and the diaphragms are in perfect condition. Maybe I need to replace the gaskets in a last dash effort, but I highly doubt that is the problem.

I have not however checked the compression. I took the previous owners word that he did a compression test, but that information is quite useless so I will try to get a hold of a compression tester and see what the reading is.

Next step after this will be timing.

 

[Recreateme]

I still really feel like this is a carb issue, i know you said you cleaned them and everything but i thought i cleaned mine the first 3 three times too lol

Go through the carb guide and make sure its all good, floats are set, jets are not plugged, no lines are plugged, and if it still all checks out i would look into testing compression and setting your valve clearances.. Maybe you have broken intake valves and its preventing the gas from making it in?

Also, make sure you have the proper spark plugs, if they are not long enough or not screwed in enough they wont make it into the chamber and will fire, but it won't do anything.

If you are correct and the plugs are bone dry after you crank it over a bunch then you have to be having a carb issue or you have a blockage in the cylinder.. What else could it be..


EDIT: Also, that is a really cool looking bike, I'm a bit jealous haha

 

[Spad]

Positively a cool looking bike....Keep us up on what is happening...Spad

 

[Tony Gee]

Sounds like my bike when I bought it....make sure all old gas is out of the tank clean your carbs, my carbs had gunk built up from old gas. Make sure there are no cracks or loose hoses, and check timing my valve timing was off.

 

[jmd_forest]

Again, check to see if it runs on starting fluid. If it does you still have a carb problem. Verify the carbs have gas by opening up the drain plug in the bowl. If no gas, you will need to set the float levels. IF you have gas in the bowl but none getting to the spark, there is still some dirt to clean out.

 

[Scorpio1963]

Other than checking to make sure your floats are set at the correct level and proper plugs,clean up the parts on that circuit board contraption and see if it will fire up.I have no clue what it is I was thinking maybe it the black box that when goes out it will keep your bike from running.

 

[ryMY]

deleteddddddd

 

[ryMY]

Other than checking to make sure your floats are set at the correct level and proper plugs,clean up the parts on that circuit board contraption and see if it will fire up.I have no clue what it is I was thinking maybe it the black box that when goes out it will keep your bike from running.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I'm going to keep tinkering with it to see what happens.

Scorpio1963, you might be onto something. I found this in the folder of insurance papers:


I can't make out the writing (+ it's in Dutch scribble) but I can for sure make out CYL1 and CYL2… I'm really unsure but if anyone can help out with this, that would be great as well.

The thing was actually not plugged into anything when I took the seat off… it was just connected with the grounds and the other wires went into space.

 

[Scorpio1963]

Check underneath your battery box to see if theres a black box there,Im not familiar with the xs360 of if they they have them but its just a thought.Im think a po might have modified it and the location.XSchris might be more help than I am but its an idea to check into.If your good at soldering and the joints are bad try and reflow them.Then see what happens.

 

[16VGTIDave]

I'm guessing that the mystery electronics are a DIY ignition of some sort. Since you have spark I'd leave it alone for now. As previously suggested, try starting fluid to prove you need to clean the carbs again. Or argue with our collective knowledge, your choice...

 

[ryMY]

I'm guessing that the mystery electronics are a DIY ignition of some sort. Since you have spark I'd leave it alone for now. As previously suggested, try starting fluid to prove you need to clean the carbs again. Or argue with our collective knowledge, your choice...

I'm simply questioning and I'm not deliberately trying to argue. I am in the process of cleaning the carbs again and I will take some photos this time to post up.

I'm not able to get any starting fluid until at least Monday. With this said, I have put some gas into a spray bottle and shot it into the cylinders while cranking with the electric start (I found a charger) and I didn't get anything. I took the spark plugs out and they were dry still. I'm wondering if this means my plugs are the wrong ones and too short?

 

[Scorpio1963]

Iyou suspect the plugs I would google to correct plug for your bike and see what you come up with.The theory of plugs being to long is bologna.I have ran short and both long plugs in my bike with no issues starting it.Take the plugs out squirt gas directly in the cylinders,not a lot of it.

 

[ryMY]

I had some time to work on the bike this afternoon, so I went and took the carburetors apart again. Here are the photos like I promised:



The bowls were full of fuel, so there is for sure fuel join to the carbs





















Main Jet





















And that's it for the carburetor disassembly (except for the choke valve on the side… I just didn't take a photo of that). Both of the carburetors look like this, so if you guys see anything that you can tell to not be OK with the condition, please let me know.




Now to the spark plugs: I will check these to see if they are the wrong size (Champion N9YC is printed on them)



and the ignition system











I also looked into the weird homemade electronic shut off and I could not figure out where he would have connected it, if it was ever connected to begin with. I could assume it was a project that was never finished.

Oh, and this was something I noticed when I just got the bike and took off the tank. Bummer, but I could think of many more serious places for a crack.

The upper engine mount that connects with the head/valve cover. I looked on ebay and can get a valve cover for €30, so that isn't too bad.

 

[xschris]

On the carbs you nee to remove the pilot and main jets that are in the float bowl. Make sure they are clean and clear. Also put some compressed air through all the holes in the carbs and make sure they are clear.

 

[xschris]

Pics of the jets. As for the valve cover you need to have the matching head to go with it. The two are machined at the factory to be matched for the cam to ride in. Maybe you can get the broken part fixed.

 

[Tony Gee]

When you try starting the bike can you hear the starter making noise? Have you tried kick starting the bike? Does the bike have compression?

 

[jmd_forest]

A significant part of the starting/idle fuel circuit is the brass dip tube and the hole it fits into in the bowl. There is a tiny orifice in the dip tube near the carb body that needs to be cleaned as well as thru the dip tube. Also, the hole the dip tube fits into must be clear all the way thru to the bowl. Squirt carb cleaner thru the tube and make sure it comes out. Squirt carb cleaner thru the hole the dip tube inserts into and make sure it comes out thru the orifice in the bottom of the bowl.

 

[ryMY]

Pics of the jets. As for the valve cover you need to have the matching head to go with it. The two are machined at the factory to be matched for the cam to ride in. Maybe you can get the broken part fixed.

I have taken out these ports as well and they are totally clean. With the valve cover and head, would it be possible to get the head and valve cover faces to be machined to fit?

When you try starting the bike can you hear the starter making noise? Have you tried kick starting the bike? Does the bike have compression?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "making noise"? A bad noise or just working? I have spark and the ignition coils work and I have tested them with a multimeter. I have to get a hold of a compression tester to check my compression, but it feels a little easy to kick over, so I feel that this could be very possible and there is a compression leak.

A significant part of the starting/idle fuel circuit is the brass dip tube and the hole it fits into in the bowl. There is a tiny orifice in the dip tube near the carb body that needs to be cleaned as well as thru the dip tube. Also, the hole the dip tube fits into must be clear all the way thru to the bowl. Squirt carb cleaner thru the tube and make sure it comes out. Squirt carb cleaner thru the hole the dip tube inserts into and make sure it comes out thru the orifice in the bottom of the bowl.

I am not sure if you are talking about the main jet, or what exactly. I have however blown air and carb cleaner through every hole and jet and it all goes through fine.