I bought this one from eBay http://www.electronicamotos.com.ar/products/Yamaha-XS650-Regulator-Rectifier.html
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Combo Regulator Rectifier - 79 XS400F
- Thread starter TimBuz
- Start date
For those of you...2+ years ago, who were wondering about whether the reg/rec from Amazon would work.
I would say "no". After a trip down a long road, explained elsewhere, I am back to addressing the charging issues. The stator is not great, but should provide some charging. Right now, I have none. I tested the diodes in the reg/rec and I believe that one is bad. I got a reading on the positive side as to one pole where I should have gotten none. This reg/rec has only seen about 20 minutes worth of engine running and it is wired correctly (on my end).
Next questions:
How about this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ElectroSpor...ash=item25baf3fc61:g:thYAAOSwneRXQ5Dy&vxp=mtr
It is listed for an XS750/XS850/XS1100
Any reason this would not work?
Thanks.
I would say "no". After a trip down a long road, explained elsewhere, I am back to addressing the charging issues. The stator is not great, but should provide some charging. Right now, I have none. I tested the diodes in the reg/rec and I believe that one is bad. I got a reading on the positive side as to one pole where I should have gotten none. This reg/rec has only seen about 20 minutes worth of engine running and it is wired correctly (on my end).
Next questions:
How about this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ElectroSpor...ash=item25baf3fc61:g:thYAAOSwneRXQ5Dy&vxp=mtr
It is listed for an XS750/XS850/XS1100
Any reason this would not work?
Thanks.
Alright...here we go once more...but I'm sneaking up on getting this done.
I used some jumpers to put direct voltage to the field coil. I was able to magnetize the field coil (as checked with a razor blade). I unplugged the regulator portion of the reg/rec and ran it with the jumpers from the battery to the field coil. At idle I had over 13 volts and by 3,000 rpm well over 14, approaching 15. I'd call this a step in the right direction.
So, apparently the rectifier portion is working OK, but the regulator is not. Any reason I can't cut the built in regulator out of the system and run it with a parts store regulator (R292 or something equivalent)?
I used some jumpers to put direct voltage to the field coil. I was able to magnetize the field coil (as checked with a razor blade). I unplugged the regulator portion of the reg/rec and ran it with the jumpers from the battery to the field coil. At idle I had over 13 volts and by 3,000 rpm well over 14, approaching 15. I'd call this a step in the right direction.
So, apparently the rectifier portion is working OK, but the regulator is not. Any reason I can't cut the built in regulator out of the system and run it with a parts store regulator (R292 or something equivalent)?
maydaverave
XS400 Enthusiast
I'm running a mosfet regulator rectifier. So far works great. I plan on starting a thread about it when i have the time.
...please do as those parts feel like these parts are foreign to a lot of us....
I am beginning to suspect that the reg/rec is not so much the problem, I am. This is what I get for jumping into parts changing without making sure I understand exactly what the problem is and how the system works.
The reg/rec i got from Amazon is probably designed to be used with a later XS400 where the power to the field coil is controlled by switching the + voltage on and off. As I understand it, my 1979 controls power to the field coil by switching the ground path on and off. So, it may be that the reg/rec is working fine,...but it, as it sits, will not work with my system. Like I said before, it is rectifying fine, it produced DC voltage when I jumpered past the voltage regulator and applied power to the field coil directly. This would also probably explain my blowing the "signal" fuse when trying to get this to work.
The reg/rec i got from Amazon is probably designed to be used with a later XS400 where the power to the field coil is controlled by switching the + voltage on and off. As I understand it, my 1979 controls power to the field coil by switching the ground path on and off. So, it may be that the reg/rec is working fine,...but it, as it sits, will not work with my system. Like I said before, it is rectifying fine, it produced DC voltage when I jumpered past the voltage regulator and applied power to the field coil directly. This would also probably explain my blowing the "signal" fuse when trying to get this to work.
maydaverave
XS400 Enthusiast
The problem with directly powering your field coil is you have no way of regulating current. It would probably work if you ran a combo regulator rectifier but if your jumping the stock regulator you have no regulator. Thats why I'm running a mosfet regulator rectifier, it regulates power by controlling the resistance of the stator. I'm powering my field coil directly but in a much more efficient system.
Powering the field coil directly is a test procedure only.
Shouldn't take too much rewiring to change the field coil wiring.
I wired in the r292 regulator. Brown from ignition + to yellow and orange. Green to green. Black to black.
Problem is, wired like this, ignition + was sent through the brown wire to the field coil along with + being sent hrough the green wire when charging. Despite modern morality, a + and a + don't make a circuit. It seemed to me that the brown should go to the regulator from ignition to sense voltage and not to the field coil with only the green + going to the field coil. I disconnected the brown wire from where it went into the plug to go to the field coil and grounded the black wire coming out of the field coil.
This may be backwards (switching the + rather than the -) as compared to the way it originally worked, but it made 12.5 volts at a low idle, 13 at high idle to 2,000 and peaked aroubd 14.3 at 6,000 rpm. That seems like it's working. I never saw it go above that.
....now, the turn signals don't work.....
Problem is, wired like this, ignition + was sent through the brown wire to the field coil along with + being sent hrough the green wire when charging. Despite modern morality, a + and a + don't make a circuit. It seemed to me that the brown should go to the regulator from ignition to sense voltage and not to the field coil with only the green + going to the field coil. I disconnected the brown wire from where it went into the plug to go to the field coil and grounded the black wire coming out of the field coil.
This may be backwards (switching the + rather than the -) as compared to the way it originally worked, but it made 12.5 volts at a low idle, 13 at high idle to 2,000 and peaked aroubd 14.3 at 6,000 rpm. That seems like it's working. I never saw it go above that.
....now, the turn signals don't work.....
I'd meant to suggest that the R296 might be the one for your model but couldn't find the original thread that compared the two types by year.
Doesn't really matter when the fix is that easy. Either one can be made to work.
Oddly enough, the Haynes wiring diagram for the '79 show the field coil grounded.
As for the turn signals... do all the other lights still work? Brake lights? Headlight?
Doesn't really matter when the fix is that easy. Either one can be made to work.
Oddly enough, the Haynes wiring diagram for the '79 show the field coil grounded.
As for the turn signals... do all the other lights still work? Brake lights? Headlight?
All the other lights work. I'm sure this will be simple.
BryceVR
XS400 Member
Try these schematics..
I think you wrongly purposed the wiring.
I think you wrongly purposed the wiring.
BryceVR
XS400 Member
Green is earth and the regulated wire is the red. Black is activation (the field coil doesn't drain the battery when off).
Try this and see how you go.
Try this and see how you go.
Neither of those schematics are suitable for our bikes. Neither incorporate a field coil.
Hough seems to have it figured out.
Hough seems to have it figured out.
BryceVR
XS400 Member
The field coil can be excited by a battery if needed. It should just need a +ve signal on the green from a regulated supply. I think people are over thinking it.
We'll see next week, I've ordered a 5 wire and 6 wire but I'm going to see how it works with an outboard variable supply for the field coil and an original rectifier.
We'll see next week, I've ordered a 5 wire and 6 wire but I'm going to see how it works with an outboard variable supply for the field coil and an original rectifier.
The stock system regulates the field coil and works well enough for most people.
I'd say deviating from the stock charging type would be overthinking it but everyone is free to experiment on their bikes.
See: http://www.xs400.com/threads/1979-xs400-mosfet-regulator-rectifier-theory.15950/#post-162812
Did you order your regulators from Lambert's? I see the 5/6 wire 3-phase wiring diagrams on their website but I don't see the corresponding regulators for sale in their store.
I'd say deviating from the stock charging type would be overthinking it but everyone is free to experiment on their bikes.
See: http://www.xs400.com/threads/1979-xs400-mosfet-regulator-rectifier-theory.15950/#post-162812
Did you order your regulators from Lambert's? I see the 5/6 wire 3-phase wiring diagrams on their website but I don't see the corresponding regulators for sale in their store.
Well, I unplugged and plugged in the flasher and now have turn signals. As for charging, some bikes have regulators that control the field coill by switching the ground, some by switching the power. You need a regulator that works for works for the wiring you have, or else rewire it. I have aregulator that controls the power on a bike that originally controlled the ground. I simply wired a ground for the field coil and conrol the power. It works.
Just got back from a ride.
Just got back from a ride.
BryceVR
XS400 Member
Exactly, all you need is a regulated field coil supply and my cursory measurements now suggest the supply is very flexible. A higher supply to the field coil gives a correspondingly higher output result thus indicating that the field coil voltage effects output. Therefore a limited current to the field coil regardless of other influences would suggest that a solid excitation voltage to the field coil will guarantee a good output. Given a battery then the line voltage is enough to excite the field coil. So, all you need is a clean voltage to the field coil.
Ce la vie
Ce la vie
BryceVR
XS400 Member
Of course they don't.
The field coil in a system that includes a battery will supply the excitation of the coil with the battery. The secret, as I see it, is just to switch the primary system with the ignition.
The coil will drain the the system if it's in line so has to be switched before the ignition.
Personally I'm going with a LifePo4 battery system and a patched in 4 amp regulator for the field coil. I'll switch it to a master so the coil is killed with the master and the ignition just does ignition not system wide switching.
Let's face it, you can run the bike for over 40 hrs with a 3Ah battery, so the charging issue is for the electric starters. I've raced for years with cars that don't have a charging system so a charging system is a bit of a luxury in my toys. All things considered, I reckon I'll get it to work with little further effort but to me it's more important to explode a myth.
