Converting to kick only

[brockd]

Hi gang,

Haven't been on here in a couple weeks as I gave up hope on the bike for a while. Since I've not received any bites on my ads yet and have cooled off, I'm thinking about trying a little more surgery to get her going.

As I mentioned in my last post, the starter chain was slipping when using the electric start. When I pulled off the alternator cover, I noticed the enamel on the field coil is chipping/ruined and the leads connecting the field coil to the bike have come out. I've been reading about doing away with the electric ignition altogether and going the kick only route.

A couple questions:

1) If the starter chain was slipping, might my timing be out of whack - causing my sparks to go off at the wrong time? If so, how do I fix this.

2) I've been digging for a detailed breakdown on removing the elec start and can't seem to find one. I saw a thread where XSChris mentions an XS360 block-off kit but don't have any more info. Is there anything around? Is it possible to do away with the stator and field coil assembly, the starter motor and all?

3) Does anyone have a spare alternator housing gasket I could buy? My gasket has ripped and I can't find singles - only as part of a whole engine gasket kit. Otherwise could I use black RTV/gasket sealant/maker?

4) If I tear the whole electric start system out, what's the best route to go for battery? I'd assume that a regular 12v AGM would die rather quickly with headlights running and no charging system in place.

Tx!

 

[brockd]

In further digging around the forum I found that I actually received a response from Chris already: :quote: Just remove all the parts that are associated with it from the write up above. Then either find the factory block off kit that was used in the 77 xs360 2-D the 78 xs400 2-E or the 79 xs400 2-F, or use a freeze plug to cover the hole for the starter shaft. I think it's a 1 5/8" there are threads on starter delete. :quote:

All this in relation to: http://www.xs400.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7989&highlight=starter+delete

So does this mean I remove the chain, starter rotor, field coil, etc... all together? Then I'd block off the hole going in to the engine with the aforementioned freeze plug and seal off the electrical openings in the alternator cover?

 

[xschris]

You only need to remove the rotor to take off the starter clutch. The field coils and charging system stays in the cover. You do need to remove the cover to get to the starter clutch/rotor and chain for it . You need to put the rotor back on after.

 

[brockd]

Ok so the field coil is still a necessary part of the equation?
With the old enamel and loss of the connection wires, I reckon I'd have to replace it.

 

[xschris]

You need to keep all the charging system parts in there. Only remove the e-start stuff.

 

[lemonhead]

You can buy gasket paper and cut your own. Just put the paper on the surface you are making the gasket for and you can usually rub the edge or use a razor to follow the edges for your custom gasket. Or go full cheapskate and use Permatex Form-a-Gasket.

Gasket Material via Amazon

 

[xschris]

Don't use permatex or form a gasket. It's a mess and makes getting the cover off in the future a problem. Most of the time it will still leak and bits of it that get squeezed out on the inside will migrate in the motor and cause problems. Make or buy a gasket.

 

[kshansen]

How about going the other way?

I have a 1978 kick only with title, but have a 1977 with no papers but it has the electric start. Is it an easy job to add the electric start to a kick only engine?

 

[lemonhead]

I've had great success with permatex on my offroad bikes over the years. The trick is to use it extremely sparingly. I usually put a couple dabs around the surface and use my finger to wipe it into a very thin film. Easy to wipe off excess and minimize the ooze when you join cases this way.

But it should be known. Permatex is that last resort, when you absolutely need an engine running, or absolutely can not find a replacement gasket and have no access to gasket material.

So yes, buy the $5 sheet of gasket material and make one if you can't get a single.

 

[kshansen]

Gaskets on demand?

Has anyone heard of this service and know of a dealer. Wonder what it takes to get the XS400 gaskets into the system?

http://www.gasketsondemand.com/home.php3

 

[xschris]

How about going the other way?

I have a 1978 kick only with title, but have a 1977 with no papers but it has the electric start. Is it an easy job to add the electric start to a kick only engine?

Not hard but you would need to swap all the parts that are associated with it.

 

[xschris]

Gaskets on demand?

Has anyone heard of this service and know of a dealer. Wonder what it takes to get the XS400 gaskets into the system?

http://www.gasketsondemand.com/home.php3

There was a member a while back that had scanned a bunch of them. Try a search of the forum and you maybe able to find it. You can get full gaskets set off ebay for around $40. You would be just better off doing that as others will most likely be needed as some point.

 

[kshansen]

Not hard but you would need to swap all the parts that are associated with it.

Well I just might have to take a good look at doing just that. Would rather use the 1977 as it has the cast wheels and disc brakes at both ends, but as I said I can not get a hold of the guy who has the title.

He left the bike at a friend of his many years ago then dropped out of site.

This is going to be a sidecar outfit so the cast wheels and better brakes would be a plus! I have built the sidecar mounts with kick start only in mind but the "electric foot" would be a nice addition!

 

[xschris]

Swap the frames. You would have to make a few tabs to use the rear disc mag on the drum frame. A good welder would have no problem with that.

 

[kshansen]

Swap the frames. You would have to make a few tabs to use the rear disc mag on the drum frame. A good welder would have no problem with that.

Is it just a coincidence that when you say "make a few tabs" I get an ad for this on the page while reading it?

http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=L&ai=BchYdT71nVZ_2B8KX3AHakoLgB5frzZgGAAAAEAEggc6AFzgAWNeIqLKEAmDJzo-LwKSwEbIBDXd3dy54czQwMC5jb226AQk3Mjh4OTBfYXPIAQLaATFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnhzNDAwLmNvbS9mb3J1bS9zaG93dGhyZWFkLnBocD90PTE0NDI5wAIC4AIA6gIwLzQ4Njc5MTEvWFM0MDAuY29tX0xlYWRlcmJvYXJkX1Nob3d0aHJlYWRfQm90dG9t-AL00R6QA-ADmAOkA6gDAcgDmQTQBJBO4AQBkAYBoAYU2AcB&num=0&cid=5Ggz24K-Mj7ttDXHqHPzlFI7&sig=AOD64_3KHTnVauU5ytahuGR4vsuwgOnlKA&client=ca-pub-9696397702584771&adurl=http://www.chopsource.com/mounting-tabs.html&nm=2&nx=418&ny=60&mb=2

I have thought about doing just that once I get it running, and starting good. Front end would be real easy to swap out!

 

[xschris]

Don't think those are the tabs you will need. Look at the disc bikes frame and compare to the drum ones. You can remove the stuff you need and weld it to the drum frame. No need to buy anything.

 

[kshansen]

Don't think those are the tabs you will need. Look at the disc bikes frame and compare to the drum ones. You can remove the stuff you need and weld it to the drum frame. No need to buy anything.

That or just make some new ones, even if I don't or can't get the paper work for this 1977 I'd feel bad about cutting the frame. I was more making a comment on the fact that welding tabs was mentioned in a post and all of a sudden there's a link to something.

Need to be careful what you search on or write in messages, something innocent in one context can mean something totally different in another context!

 

[xschris]

Never posted any links for tabs Maybe I should have said brackets because that is what you will need to use.