Kickstarter not turning engine. HELP!!??

[Steve24]

Hi everyone,


First of all great forum, been very helpful to me.

Now I had a crack in the bottom of my crankcase on my 78, 400, Which cause oil to slowly leak when the bike was hot and running.

So I decided to replace bottom case, after putting it back together the Kickstarter will not turn the engine (engine moves freely on crank with ratchet). I'm sure I have the Kickstarter mechanism in correctly after plenty of try's.

I have read on other threads about relationship between clutch and kicker...

Can someone point me in the right direction. Any help appreciated ???

Thanks Steve.
???

 

[Sesty]

your not grabbing the clutch while kicking right? when you put the bike in gear is it hard to move around?

 

[lemonhead]

Yeah, if you don't have the clutch adjusted correctly, it'll feel like you're kicking a pile of loose mud. Just a matter of 1/16th of a turn on the adjustment screw can make the difference between contact and none.

 

[Steve24]

your not grabbing the clutch while kicking right? when you put the bike in gear is it hard to move around?

Hi thanks for reply. I'm not grabbing the clutch. When I move the bike it almost locks up.. Same with the clutch in..
Any ideas ???
Thanks.

 

[Steve24]

Yeah, if you don't have the clutch adjusted correctly, it'll feel like you're kicking a pile of loose mud. Just a matter of 1/16th of a turn on the adjustment screw can make the difference between contact and none.

Hi, thanks for the reply. I have tried adjusting the screw all different ways but still the same. Is it a matter of keep trying???
Thanks.

 

[lemonhead]

Well, the clutch adjustment screw under the rubber cap in the engine case should be set so it's about 1/16th - 1/4th tighter than when you can just feel the screw hit resistance, and hold it there while you tighten the jam nut down on it.

You should not be able to push your bike around in 1st gear with your hand off the clutch without the rear wheel dragging. If you can, either your clutch plates are smoked, or it is out of adjustment....or your chain is disconnected or output shaft is broken, but, probably not.

Does the kick lever go through its full range of motion, or does it not move at all? When my clutch was out of adjustment, the kick lever went all the way down, but wouldn't turn the engine. E-start would start the bike, but I couldn't go anywhere because the clutch wasn't making contact.

 

[Steve24]

Well, the clutch adjustment screw under the rubber cap in the engine case should be set so it's about 1/16th - 1/4th tighter than when you can just feel the screw hit resistance, and hold it there while you tighten the jam nut down on it.

You should not be able to push your bike around in 1st gear with your hand off the clutch without the rear wheel dragging. If you can, either your clutch plates are smoked, or it is out of adjustment....or your chain is disconnected or output shaft is broken, but, probably not.

Does the kick lever go through its full range of motion, or does it not move at all? When my clutch was out of adjustment, the kick lever went all the way down, but wouldn't turn the engine. E-start would start the bike, but I couldn't go anywhere because the clutch wasn't making contact.

Right I've now got the Kickstarter to go all the way down and a good spring back up. But it's not turning the engine over, soon as I adjust the clutch slightly the Kickstarter goes solid...
????

Haven't tried e start as battery on charge..

The bike was working fine before (used daily), so it's got to be something I have done.

Should have left it alone and kept topping up the oil everyday haha.

Thanks again.

 

[drewpy]

hydraulic lock, tried with no spark plugs in?

 

[Steve24]

hydraulic lock, tried with no spark plugs in?

Yeah plugs are out...
Haven't tried bumping it yet, I feel like it will lock up... I don't want to break anything.

 

[lemonhead]

So, engine spins with a ratchet and clutch out of adjustment. Kicker spins with clutch out of adjustment. When you put the two together, nothing spins...

Must be something not meshing correctly in the kicker gears.

 

[Steve24]

So, engine spins with a ratchet and clutch out of adjustment. Kicker spins with clutch out of adjustment. When you put the two together, nothing spins...

Must be something not meshing correctly in the kicker gears.

Yeh lemon head that's exactly what's happening... Do you think that what it is? Where do I go from here?
Thanks

 

[lemonhead]

Well...I can only speculate. I would check to make sure you can freely spin the engine by hand several times to make sure you have valve clearance / nothing obstructing the pistons and crank. Then check your clutch adjustment and set it proper. Then try to firmly, but not forcefully, press the kicker to see if it will turn it over. If you hit a point where you aren't comfortable pressing the kicker harder and it still won't turn over, I would start pulling things apart to see what's holding everything up.

Run through all the scenarios in your head for why parts aren't moving like they should before you tear it open. Think it out. Imagine components and how they should interact with each other. Start with the easiest/ least expensive (but proper) fix and work your way up.

 

[Sesty]

You should not be able to push your bike around in 1st gear with your hand off the clutch without the rear wheel dragging. If you can, either your clutch plates are smoked, or it is out of adjustment....or your chain is disconnected or output shaft is broken, but, probably not.
t.

is that true? bike runs/ shifts fine but im pretty sure i my rear tire will move when off and left in 1st... its not easy but i do think it moves...

 

[lemonhead]

I was being overly dramatic about the output shaft. It shouldn't be easy at all in first and gets progressively easier as gears go up because of the ratios and torque and whatnot. A fresh clutch, properly adjusted will kind of make the rear wheel drag and bounce as you push the bike. At least this is my experience with lightweight mx bikes. I am still learning the ropes with the xs, but have done plenty with off-road bikes and it stands to reason, in my mind, that the theory should cross over between all bikes.

Also, if clutch is good and wheel turns, you are forcing the engine to turn over. It's difficult to do because in first gear you have little torque to turn the engine and you have to overcome the engine compression. That's why you put it in a high gear to bump start.

 

[Wolfe_11B]

Sounds to me like the kicker mechanism isn't in right.

 

[lemonhead]

Sounds to me like the kicker mechanism isn't in right.

Agreed.

 

[Rick Willett]

Yeah, if you don't have the clutch adjusted correctly, it'll feel like you're kicking a pile of loose mud. Just a matter of 1/16th of a turn on the adjustment screw can make the difference between contact and none.

You guys are fucking geniuses...just saved me a ton of work...my kick wouldn't work...adjusted the clutch....boom....workin. I love you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!