Stator / RegRec Wiring Question

[LeBouc]

Hello Elder (I am 70 so I also consider myself an elder). I have checked your battery at BatteriesPlus and read a very interesting comment that could explain your problem. You said it's a Smart battery; the BMS (battery Management System) that comes with your battery is probably the reason of your charging issue. When it senses a voltage higher than what the lithium battery can accept, the BMS protects the battery by simply cutting the incoming charge! Since our alternator punch out as much as 14+ volts and the lithium batteries will not tolerate more 12.5 (or 12,8V, I don't remember - old age memory!), the BMS blocks the charge. The battery is still connected to the bike and will empty itself to satisfy the needs but there is no recharging. When you read about lithium battery charging, they will tell you that you need a specific charger for them. On our bikes, you would need to put (yes, again) a voltage regulator specifically built for lithium batteries (don't stop reading yet). By the way, your LEDs will last a lot longer if they are fed at around 12V rather than the 13-14V that comes from the charging system so it could save you some money to connect them to that regulator as well. However, since Watts = Volts X Current, the LEDs will not shine as much... The other parts on your bike, like the CDI, are designed to work with the voltage regulator that comes with the bike but can probably continue to work without problems with 12.5 Volts. The ignition coils, however, will produce a weaker spark because they will receive less energy . So I suggest that you connect only the lights and the battery to the voltage regulator for lithium battery and keep the rest connected to the standard one. This is my last post on this topic. I have used my own time to help and if you don't like what I say, it's useless to repeat myself. So good luck with your project and enjoy your bike!

 

[Elder]

It's been a while, but I finally have an update.

@LeBouc, I know you said you wouldn't respond (and that's fine), but the Regulator/Rectifier I've been trying to fit is designed for lithium charging systems. I never said I didn't like what you were saying, just that we seemed to not be on the same page about what I was asking. For the record, I do appreciate your advice about running some of the electronics off the regulator with others being run directly from the battery.

Now, that said... I'm not saying "It's Fixed", but I am saying it's looking promising today.
Short version: I tried a different wiring configuration. Rudimentary screenshot attached and text version below. As before, I'm not an electrician... If terminology is incorrect, please be nice about it.

Wires colored as they originate From the Reg/Rec;
White (x3) --> straight to the 3 white wires from the stator as previously recommended. Order doesn't matter.
Black --> Ground/Earth/whatever you call it in your corner of the world.
Red --> Straight back to the positive battery terminal.
Gray --> Switched Power. In my case, back to the fuse box which is controlled by the "ignition switch" (I'm being generous here, it's just a 2-pole toggle switch because I've apparently decided that keys are for fancy boys). This wire is essentially the "on switch" for the RR.
Green --> Charges the Field Coil.

Since this change I've been on a few short rides and checked the voltage on the battery after each. I've done 2, 4, 6, and 8 mile loops this weekend. Each time, the battery has read between 12.8v and 13.6v after I've gotten it back to the garage. Last time I rode it with the old wiring configuration, I got about 4.5 miles and then the battery was completely dead on the side of the road and needed to be "woken up", whatever that means, with a particular battery tender. I'm told that Lithium batteries will apparently completely shut down if depleted beyond a designated point. Outsmarted by the BMS.

Hopefully this helps some other poor sod who decides they want to swap their battery for a Lithium. And hopefully I'm not wrong and just haven't noticed it yet. If this turns out to not work in the long term, I'll update the post.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice and guidance. Here's to hoping she keeps running on longer rides.

 

[LeBouc]

It's been a while, but I finally have an update.

@LeBouc, I know you said you wouldn't respond (and that's fine), but the Regulator/Rectifier I've been trying to fit is designed for lithium charging systems. I never said I didn't like what you were saying, just that we seemed to not be on the same page about what I was asking. For the record, I do appreciate your advice about running some of the electronics off the regulator with others being run directly from the battery.

Now, that said... I'm not saying "It's Fixed", but I am saying it's looking promising today.
Short version: I tried a different wiring configuration. Rudimentary screenshot attached and text version below. As before, I'm not an electrician... If terminology is incorrect, please be nice about it.

Wires colored as they originate From the Reg/Rec;
White (x3) --> straight to the 3 white wires from the stator as previously recommended. Order doesn't matter.
Black --> Ground/Earth/whatever you call it in your corner of the world.
Red --> Straight back to the positive battery terminal.
Gray --> Switched Power. In my case, back to the fuse box which is controlled by the "ignition switch" (I'm being generous here, it's just a 2-pole toggle switch because I've apparently decided that keys are for fancy boys). This wire is essentially the "on switch" for the RR.
Green --> Charges the Field Coil.

View attachment 39560

Since this change I've been on a few short rides and checked the voltage on the battery after each. I've done 2, 4, 6, and 8 mile loops this weekend. Each time, the battery has read between 12.8v and 13.6v after I've gotten it back to the garage. Last time I rode it with the old wiring configuration, I got about 4.5 miles and then the battery was completely dead on the side of the road and needed to be "woken up", whatever that means, with a particular battery tender. I'm told that Lithium batteries will apparently completely shut down if depleted beyond a designated point. Outsmarted by the BMS.

Hopefully this helps some other poor sod who decides they want to swap their battery for a Lithium. And hopefully I'm not wrong and just haven't noticed it yet. If this turns out to not work in the long term, I'll update the post.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice and guidance. Here's to hoping she keeps running on longer rides.

Just to verify, when you say that you checked the battery voltage upon return of your rides, did you completely disconnect the battery before putting your tester? It may change the reading because, in the circuit, we have capacitors and coils and both will store some electicity to function properly but when the switch is turned off, they will gradually disperse their charge through the frame and while they do it, the voltage will read higher than the battery alone. When you test with the battery connected, you are not testing the battery, you are testing the complete circuit.

I have tried to find the difference between your connections and the factory ones but with the different colors, it becomes impossible to understand what you are doing so I can't figure why it is working! The BMS is there to avoid burning the battery so you should make sure to understand what is the plan behind its design!