Tracing a short

[Hishman]

It's been quite a while since I was on here. With the school year in session and trying to run a home business I have really not had time to work on the xs. But today I really missed riding it an now i'm making it a priority to get running. Last time I worked on it it ran but had a charging issue. Here is all the information I remember

All readings taken with .2-.3 lead resistance

-I rewired the stator. Ohms are 1.0-1.1

-Tested the field coil ohms are 4.3-4.4

-Field coil does not magnetize with key on but running green/black to +/- on battery produces magnetic field

- Bought this new voltage regulator and wired like this

-Tested continuity of rectifier. All diodes are good.

- 12 ish volts from the battery. Absolutely no change in volts between running and not but when i pull the regulator off and run the field coil directly to the battery i get in increase in volts. I got over 13 maybe more. Its hard to tell as the bike doesn't like to rev very well.

So whats next? I would assume that there is either a short somewhere or a bad connection. What is a good method for tracking it down. My guess would be take each plug and temporarily splice the wires directly together until it starts to charge.

 

[N8Bishop]

First thing I'd do is check the battery. 12ish volts is low so you may have failing battery. parts store will usually check them for free.
Regardless, you should see some change in voltage with the bike running though. Instead of temporarily splicing the wires together, I'd just change out the connector, or splice them permanently. not hard to do, and it takes the connector out of the equation.
Also, and I know i'm being nit-picky here, if your problem is a bad connection, you are looking for an open.

 

[Lou Ranger]

I had a nearly new battery "lose" a cell this year. Got a new replacement under warranty. While I was figuring out the problem I took readings on the battery. Maybe they will be of use.

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]With the good replacement battery, I idled it @ 2,100+. Voltage across the battery terminals was 14.70
[/FONT][FONT=verdana,sans-serif]The bad battery, while on the battery tender, read a voltage of nearly 14.
But immediately after taking the tender off it was 12.6.
An hour later, 11.7, and the next morning, after sitting all night it read 10.71. Over the next couple of days it declined only slightly further to 10.53. Having reached that mark, it has been able to hold that reading (as if one of the six cells was down to 10%).

Most importantly, what could the battery do at 10.53? Make the dash lights go on. The starter didn't even make a noise, never mind turn over. The replacement battery, read 12.7 and turned the engine over without any problem.

It sounds to me like your battery is good, but to confirm, try taking readings after charging it, then an hour later, then the next day. If it holds above 12, it is fine. If it declines into the 10s, you likely have a dead or dying cell.[/FONT]

 

[arfstrom]

I guess I was wonder what clue do you have that the bike isn't charging? numbers seem to be good.

 

[Hishman]

I'll explain more. When I turn the key on the field coil does not magnetize a feeler gauge. I have confirmed that is is not charging by testing the voltage while running. Now if I bypass the voltage regulator by running the two leads from the field coil to the battery the coil magnetizes and it appears to be charge the battery. so I'm trying to determine where I should be looking for a problem.

Another thing my headlight doesn't work. It used to but quit all the sudden. Yesterday when I was fiddling with the field coil and running it directly to the battery at some point in time the headlight came on. It was odd and I can't determine what I did to make it come on. Now today it won't come on again

 

[ratrodder69]

Pull all the fuses except the main and see what happens

Posted via Mobile

 

[Lou Ranger]

I guess I was wonder what clue do you have that the bike isn't charging? numbers seem to be good.

If he has a good battery, ought he not be getting a reading of over 14 volts when the engine is running and being revved? He's only getting "12 ish".

On a battery with a dead cell, I got just a hair under 14 volts when I had it on the battery tender, yet it wouldn't turn the bike over.
Something is definitely interfering with the charging, yet it appears that some parts of the system are functioning.

 

[Hishman]

The battery is good. Its less than 6 months old and I've hardly driven the bike. What the problem is when I turn the key on the duel coil is not powering on. If I run it to the battery the charging system works so that crosses out the rectifiers field oil and armature. Leaving the regulator and the part that turns the coil on when the key is turned on. Well I replaced the regulator so that leaves the ignition. I think something is open/short that has to do withthe ignition

 

[Lou Ranger]

My brand new battery was less than 6 weeks old and it developed a bad cell.
But since yours holds at 12ish, it sounds like it is fine.
The fact that it stays at 12 ish and does not go over 14 when being run and revved definitely means the system isn't charging it. I could get almost 14 off a 5 cell battery when it was being charged.

 

[Hishman]

Also i tried running the bike with the green grounded like in the video and after about 10 seconds the black apoxy on the voltage regulator bubbled and smoked. Im going to assuming i just fried the regulator. So where can i get a new one that would work?

i was able to get 14v with it wired like that at a very high rpm. 3000+ maybe even 4000. It was in the 13s around idle.

 

[arfstrom]

It seems and I cant confirm it, but there are 2 more relays, (one is a safety/ one is for headlight on after engine is running) that might be stopping your experiment. The next time I could do the same experiment would be Tuesday. with out hacking my wires. I suspect that with out the engine running, your V/R is not going to send the signal down the green wire to activate the field coil. So for experimental purpose its okay to test some things, but in this case, You know what happen. remember the mechanical VR (if I remember right) checks for the need for added Voltage. 90 times a minute, or was that a second. So that thought, you need to add a draw to the the system, ie hit the brakes with the incandescent lights on. (just in case you updated to LED's) or the original turn signals. flip the hi beams for the 65 watts.

Safety relay is making sure that either the clutch is pulled prior to the starter button is pushed, and or the bike is in neutral. ...

 

[Hishman]

Your saying a relay might be causing my charging problems? I will also add that my bike starts in gear with the clutch out. I just tested the headlight bulb using the battery and it works so there is something wrong but unless it is effecting the charging system it can wait.

So what should I do now?

 

[arfstrom]

starts in gear with the clutch out.

So what should I do now?

Okay, So when you say the clutch out? There are 3 conditions that needs to be met for the bike to start.

• Clutch in
• in gear
• Green light off

Or

• clutch out
• In neutral
• Green light on

Of course that is assuming that your battery is topped off with distilled water, and everything is working right as in your starter stuff, to do right to your bike, look up your wire diagram, and if you have too, start doodling, the parts that appear to work for what we are working with. So each item is looking for one of those conditions to be met to allow for ignition to the engine.

 

[Hishman]

Yes my bike starts under all conditions. It will start in gear while not holding the clutch lever. I'm not really worried about the relay at the moment unless this could be causing my bike not to charge.

 

[arfstrom]

Yup, relay is not going to block charging.

Have you gone and check for continuity from devices to stator? From the stator to first connector to a second connector, to finally to the vr or rectifier. The three whites are contiguous all the way through. (White to connector to white to rectifier/VR ) like the same test you did for rectifier, but do it at the further connector. Vr you are only able to test that there is continuity between, and examine the resistance.

If you haven't done it yet, that grounding spot next to the battery, undo it, and shine both parts up. With sand paper, or whatever. Other ground spot legitimately are next to your front turn signals. Any one else have anything?

 

[Hishman]

Alright well i went ahead an ordered a stock VR from ebay for 20$. Seller guarantees functionality. With the brown wire giving power to the VR and the black wire giving a ground i can find no reason why the VR is not switching the ground to the field coil(green wire)