when upshifting through my gears it seams way to easy to do it without the clutch, not counting taking off ovcourse. ive search the web on this most people say never, some say only for racers with sponses to pay for it. but some have the belief that it aint so bad ,just dont down shift without cluch, I hear no grind or thud it does it as if i pulled the clutch whats the general concencus hear. am i just developing a lazy habit,seems maybe the former owner did it. asked after test driving it and the old dude just shook his head no.
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upshifting through gears
- Thread starter reed
- Start date
Well, I'm no expert. However, from what I read, about the design of the transmissions, not opinions about what to do, added stress is placed on the shift dogs by shifting without the clutch. It may not be enough stress to cause a problem if the revs are matched well, but I prefer not to take the chance. I'll use the clutch.
The shift dogs are the notches on the purple gear below the shift fork that, when the notches insert into corresponding slots in the gears, lock the gear to the output shaft. Below is a diagram, then a pic of the dogs in real life. the way I understand it, it's not as much of a problem with the gear teeth themselves as the shift dogs...but I could be full of it. Wouldn't be the first time I've been accused of it.
The shift dogs are the notches on the purple gear below the shift fork that, when the notches insert into corresponding slots in the gears, lock the gear to the output shaft. Below is a diagram, then a pic of the dogs in real life. the way I understand it, it's not as much of a problem with the gear teeth themselves as the shift dogs...but I could be full of it. Wouldn't be the first time I've been accused of it.
yaeh iam seaing what you are saying, gues i kinda knew it had to put stress somewhere thats why there is a clutch i guess. just does it so effortlessly some times cant even remember if i pulled it,maybe that is just the ol alziemers kikin in.
crush1776
Injury Prone
It will definitely increase wear and tear, whether it is an acceptable trade off is up to you. xs400 OHC's are 30+ years old remember!
On many computer controlled race bikes there is a sensor in the shift lever that determines when an upshift is about to occur and retards the ignition for a blink of an eye, so no need for a clutch. I think Ducati was the first to implement this system. But racers have sponsors and budgets and chief mechanics, sooo...
On many computer controlled race bikes there is a sensor in the shift lever that determines when an upshift is about to occur and retards the ignition for a blink of an eye, so no need for a clutch. I think Ducati was the first to implement this system. But racers have sponsors and budgets and chief mechanics, sooo...
I do it sometimes and can do it on downshift with the right revs. the rev limiters/ignition cut out on the modern bikes just let you keep full throttle whilst clutchless changes place. special slipper clutches let you down shift without locking the back wheel up
I read about those slipper clutches and find it to be an interesting solution. I understand the application to drag racing since shifting up fast enough is probably the biggest issue. Down-shifting, on the other hand, is not nearly as time-sensitive. Coming from cars though I was surprised that people don't simply "heel-toe" to downshift. In a car this just means revving the engine while simultaneously braking and downshifting to match rpms and eliminate the affects of engine braking when entering a turn at high speeds. I would think this should be relatively easy to do on a bike as well, but perhaps having the front brake and throttle on the same handle can easily lead to a costly mistake.
skillzman1
XS400 Junkie
it basically prematurely wears the ears on the clutch basket...you end up with what looks like teeth from the top view where the ears on the plates set in between the ears on the basket...end up with a finicky...notchy/not smooth clutch operation.This is due to the fact that the ears of the plates are supposed to slide in and out in the basket...and they end up hanging up on the teeth that form from switching gears without removing the engines torque load.
They will form over time even with proper use....but not as fast obviously...the teeth can be filed smooth...but only once or so ...then everything gets loose sounding...and the extra play makes for faster premature wear.
I used to shift clutcless on my MX bikes...then saw it wasnt worth the damage caused.
They will form over time even with proper use....but not as fast obviously...the teeth can be filed smooth...but only once or so ...then everything gets loose sounding...and the extra play makes for faster premature wear.
I used to shift clutcless on my MX bikes...then saw it wasnt worth the damage caused.
ahale2772
XS400 Addict
does an xs400 have synchro's in the tranny? if so shiftin wiout the clutch isnt the worst IF you match the revs, if not you are trying to stop the running engine with a little bras synchro...opposed to just stopping input shaft/cross shaft when the clutch is engaged
ive rebuilt a few manuals in big trucks, most truckers never use the clutch after first gear, on a trans with synchros, the dogs on the gears dont engage untill after the synchro does
ive rebuilt a few manuals in big trucks, most truckers never use the clutch after first gear, on a trans with synchros, the dogs on the gears dont engage untill after the synchro does
