Spad
XS400 Addict
Any of the older Yamaha dirt bike alloy spoke wheels fit the XS400 with drum brakes?
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Allloy spoke rims
- Thread starter Spad
- Start date
Maybe. It has to do with the angle the spoke leaves the rim. The flanged alloy rims that the 650s used will probably fit the front, and maybe fit the back. The answer to your question is diameter of the 400's hubs, and the width at the flanges where the spokes go through. If too wide or narrow, the spokes will be bent on their way to the rim.
If used for rough riding, you want a cross 3 minimum setup, better yet, a cross 4. That means the spoke crosses 3 other spokes on it's same side on the way to the rim. That makes for a longer spoke, but a stronger wheel. Most dirt bikes have wide hubs, in order to make a stronger wheel.
The other idea would be fit a DT250/400 rear wheel onto the XS; you'd need to see if the axle was the same diameter. My guess it is, or very close. If so, other than aligning the chain, you're all set. The front could use a rim from the 650, laced to the 400 hub.
if you're really serious about this, contact Buchanan's; they can provide anything you want. if you do it right, you'll never need to mess with it again. These guys have been in business since the 60s, and they really do the job. One thing that often happens is someone has a good idea, but does it in such a way that it doesn't work or works poorly. These guys will make whatever you want and it will definitely fit and last. In the end, cheaper.
Here: http://www.buchananspokes.net/categories/akront.asp
i'm actually considering doing exactly this. But I want a SR500/XS650 front end, because I want the better forks. It will fit right on if you bring the triples over as well. it is a nice upgrade, a lot cheaper than other bike's stuff, and cheap and available repair parts. By putting race Tech cartridge emulators in the SR/XS forks, I have something that handles as well as you could use on a bike like this, and fits easily and looks like it came from the factory this way. make it too nice, someone will steal it.
The XS400 is a nice bike, but even going to super deluxe suspension, you're still held back by the frame and steering geometry. So at some point, you need to decide what you're going to use it for and work towards that.
If used for rough riding, you want a cross 3 minimum setup, better yet, a cross 4. That means the spoke crosses 3 other spokes on it's same side on the way to the rim. That makes for a longer spoke, but a stronger wheel. Most dirt bikes have wide hubs, in order to make a stronger wheel.
The other idea would be fit a DT250/400 rear wheel onto the XS; you'd need to see if the axle was the same diameter. My guess it is, or very close. If so, other than aligning the chain, you're all set. The front could use a rim from the 650, laced to the 400 hub.
if you're really serious about this, contact Buchanan's; they can provide anything you want. if you do it right, you'll never need to mess with it again. These guys have been in business since the 60s, and they really do the job. One thing that often happens is someone has a good idea, but does it in such a way that it doesn't work or works poorly. These guys will make whatever you want and it will definitely fit and last. In the end, cheaper.
Here: http://www.buchananspokes.net/categories/akront.asp
i'm actually considering doing exactly this. But I want a SR500/XS650 front end, because I want the better forks. It will fit right on if you bring the triples over as well. it is a nice upgrade, a lot cheaper than other bike's stuff, and cheap and available repair parts. By putting race Tech cartridge emulators in the SR/XS forks, I have something that handles as well as you could use on a bike like this, and fits easily and looks like it came from the factory this way. make it too nice, someone will steal it.
The XS400 is a nice bike, but even going to super deluxe suspension, you're still held back by the frame and steering geometry. So at some point, you need to decide what you're going to use it for and work towards that.
Spad
XS400 Addict
Thanks Yamahaguy, gonna do some background on the DT you mentioned, more interested in putting an 18" on the rear, but with less width then the the stock 120/90/16...Spad
Spad
XS400 Addict
The stock 18" spoke wheel is only 1.85 wide, limits my choice on tires. So I was looking to see if I could find an 18" alloy wheel that had a 2.15 rim. Spad
Most of the older bikes had narrow rims. I'd say a 3.50x18 is probably the tire that should be fitted to the rear, or the metric equal. I was running a 120-90-18 on my SR500, and frankly, it was too much tire, even with the performance upgrades.
Keep in mind that these bikes were essentially the replacement for the RD350/400, and would use the tire sizes those used.
Modern bikes do have substantially wider rims, but they were winning world road racing championships in the 70s with 300x18 front and 3.50x18 rear tires.
These would most likely work very well:
http://www.conti-online.com/www/motorcycle_de_en/themes/motorcycletires/allround/contigo_en.html
I just did some looking around in the parts lists: The RD400 and XS400 share rear axles, chain adjusters, etc. The chain adjusters was used as far back as the DS7/R5 series, predecessors to the RDs. They are also used on the DT series from at least 1974 on, until they went to the stupid snail adjusters. That means they all have the same diameter axles.
With that said, You may very well be able to find an entire wheel from one of the DT series or even the RD350/400 to get where you want. They all appear to be narrower than you're looking for, but plug-n-play does have advantages.
Hope this helps.
With that said, You may very well be able to find an entire wheel from one of the DT series or even the RD350/400 to get where you want. They all appear to be narrower than you're looking for, but plug-n-play does have advantages.
Hope this helps.
Spad
XS400 Addict
Thanks again Yamaguy, doing the research right now....I like those Conti-Go tires, they look pretty sweet....Spad
I've had great success with Conti tires for years. I tend to go with Dunlops for knobbies, and happen to be grinding off a set of Dunlop TR91s on my big bike at he moment (I wanted superior wet grip for cold pavement, and got it!) but for lightweight street bikes, especially those that don't run 120/70-17F 180/55-17 R sizes (sport standard) Conti or Michelin are really the way to go. After you get tired of either no traction or poor life, or both, I find myself using what I should have bought to begin with. I'm willing to pay for traction, even if I do get short tire life. Once you lose the front, you won't buy bargain rubber again.
Just sayin'
By the way, if you ditch the normal rubber for your Sportster, and fit modern stuff, like Michelins, you'll be amazed what a difference it makes. The standard Harley recommended Dunlops were cutting edge in 1981, but time has long since moved on, and there are drastically better choices now. A die-hard HD guy I know did this recently and was very pleased, says he's never going back. Those D4XX series tires are terrible, at best. Dunlop does make great motorcycle rubber, but that isn't it.
That is the one real drawback of vintage bikes: finding really suitable rubber in the sizes you're forced to deal with. If you really like your 400, after you get it sorted out, go the whole way, fit modern width rims and then upgrade to better rubber. Obviously within the widths that will fit the swingarm/chain clearance.
If I get to where I'd like to be with the XS I'm fiddling with, I'll no doubt toss the cast wheels and replace with wire wheels, fitted with flanged AL rims wide enough for better rubber. Only have to do it once, which is still cheaper than doing the wrong thing five times. Look at either a Triumph Scrambler or an old Honda CL350/450 to see what I have in mind.
Just sayin'
By the way, if you ditch the normal rubber for your Sportster, and fit modern stuff, like Michelins, you'll be amazed what a difference it makes. The standard Harley recommended Dunlops were cutting edge in 1981, but time has long since moved on, and there are drastically better choices now. A die-hard HD guy I know did this recently and was very pleased, says he's never going back. Those D4XX series tires are terrible, at best. Dunlop does make great motorcycle rubber, but that isn't it.
That is the one real drawback of vintage bikes: finding really suitable rubber in the sizes you're forced to deal with. If you really like your 400, after you get it sorted out, go the whole way, fit modern width rims and then upgrade to better rubber. Obviously within the widths that will fit the swingarm/chain clearance.
If I get to where I'd like to be with the XS I'm fiddling with, I'll no doubt toss the cast wheels and replace with wire wheels, fitted with flanged AL rims wide enough for better rubber. Only have to do it once, which is still cheaper than doing the wrong thing five times. Look at either a Triumph Scrambler or an old Honda CL350/450 to see what I have in mind.
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Spad
XS400 Addict
Yamahaguy, I'm with you on the tire thing. For my Harley I went with Pirelli Sport Demons, they seem to do good...I have never been a Dunlop fan, I like Continentals or Pirelli rubber...or Avons...One thing I don't want to do is over tire the little XS400, I think shifting to a 18"rear with a minimum of 2.15 wide rim I can get some good rubber on the rear. Having wire wheels not too worried about the front with 1.85 rims as the Continentals or Avons will work..Though the Connies seem the way to go on the rear....One of the problems is finding the acceptable rim width size the Connies recommend
.The Pirelli's on the Harley so far have been sticky in the turns and responsive....
Spad
.The Pirelli's on the Harley so far have been sticky in the turns and responsive....SpadI've run Dunlop sport rubber on my FZ, they were very good. More traction that I had the ability or bravery to fully use. The D606s on my WRR are all I could ask for in a DOT knobby. But those older D4XX series are without a doubt one of the worst tires on the market.
The ones I consistently have problem with are Bridgestones. The tires that came on both of my newer bikes were Bridgestones: the TW301/302s on the WRR had no traction on anything but clean, dry pavement that was 70 degrees. We have little of that here. On gravel it felt like ball bearings on a glass plate. Forget anything damp. The I switched to the D606s. I got caught in a real gully washer downpour last year on the WRR, about 45 miles away from home. I rode in almost standing water home, really took it easy at first as they are knobbies, and found I still had excellent traction. I ended up really rolling at about 60-65 most of the way home. No traction problems at all. Nothing like hard cornering full knobbies in the rain. Move over Valentino Rossi!
The Super Tenere came with Bridgestones as well. I thought they were OK for rubber designed for a large ADV/touring bike. That was in July. In November, on the Friday after Thanksgiving, I had to drop the bike off for winter storage at the dealer: get the first service after the 600 mile check out of the way, and allow me space to redo the garage over winter. It was side slipping the rear, so much so that I stopped, got off and looked to see if somehow something had gotten on the rear tire that was causing it. No final drive oil, no coolant, nothing obvious. It happened a few more times before I got there, nothing too dangerous, but a definite side slip under cornering. The Euro guys got the ST a few years before we did, they all switched to other rubber. I have Dunlop TR91s on at the moment, just as good off road as the Bridgestones, but on the road they stick like glue, even cold and wet. There's a lot to be said for a 600 pound ADV bike that can be ridden like a sport bike on rough back roads. (we have a lot of those here) I'll most likely try something more dirt oriented and aggressive next, like the Mitas. But at the moment, I can't say enough good things about the two sets of Dunlops I have on my newer bikes.
The point of all of this is that tires are the contact we have with the planet. You can't spend enough on them to be called wasteful, in my opinion. Cheaping out on rubber, brakes, suspension, and steering is false economy. A poor running engine won't kill you, usually. Crap tires and failed brakes can, and probably will.
The ones I consistently have problem with are Bridgestones. The tires that came on both of my newer bikes were Bridgestones: the TW301/302s on the WRR had no traction on anything but clean, dry pavement that was 70 degrees. We have little of that here. On gravel it felt like ball bearings on a glass plate. Forget anything damp. The I switched to the D606s. I got caught in a real gully washer downpour last year on the WRR, about 45 miles away from home. I rode in almost standing water home, really took it easy at first as they are knobbies, and found I still had excellent traction. I ended up really rolling at about 60-65 most of the way home. No traction problems at all. Nothing like hard cornering full knobbies in the rain. Move over Valentino Rossi!
The Super Tenere came with Bridgestones as well. I thought they were OK for rubber designed for a large ADV/touring bike. That was in July. In November, on the Friday after Thanksgiving, I had to drop the bike off for winter storage at the dealer: get the first service after the 600 mile check out of the way, and allow me space to redo the garage over winter. It was side slipping the rear, so much so that I stopped, got off and looked to see if somehow something had gotten on the rear tire that was causing it. No final drive oil, no coolant, nothing obvious. It happened a few more times before I got there, nothing too dangerous, but a definite side slip under cornering. The Euro guys got the ST a few years before we did, they all switched to other rubber. I have Dunlop TR91s on at the moment, just as good off road as the Bridgestones, but on the road they stick like glue, even cold and wet. There's a lot to be said for a 600 pound ADV bike that can be ridden like a sport bike on rough back roads. (we have a lot of those here) I'll most likely try something more dirt oriented and aggressive next, like the Mitas. But at the moment, I can't say enough good things about the two sets of Dunlops I have on my newer bikes.
The point of all of this is that tires are the contact we have with the planet. You can't spend enough on them to be called wasteful, in my opinion. Cheaping out on rubber, brakes, suspension, and steering is false economy. A poor running engine won't kill you, usually. Crap tires and failed brakes can, and probably will.
Spad
XS400 Addict
I imagine the newer Dunlops are OK for newer bikes. I never liked Bridgestones, although I read good things about the newer stuff. You do off road riding and I don't...We have lot of sun out here in the desert part of my state, not much rain, about 6 inches a year so basically dry, just cold in the winter and not much riding time...Spad
Yes, riding season is just about done here. I'd say by the second week of December, at the latest. Once the road salt goes down, I'm off the bikes until after it is washed away in the spring. Rots out aluminum like battery acid. The poor WRR would disappear: it is all aluminum. The ST is too spendy to treat like that.
Gives me a good excuse to start tearing the XS down and make decisions.
Good luck on your rim/tire quest. Let me know what worked for you.
Gives me a good excuse to start tearing the XS down and make decisions.
Good luck on your rim/tire quest. Let me know what worked for you.
Spad
XS400 Addict
We have a little while to go on riding, but now we have a new state traffic ninny who has started the "salt the roads for snow", we never had that, they are saving money supposedly by doing this new program...We always used a crushed rock combination that was good, but salt is cheaper and the new ninny says newer cars shouldn't be effected....Will let you know if I just decide to stay stock on the wheels, but still have time as I have lot of work to do...Better start thinking about your winter XS teardown, ha...
Spad
SpadYeah, I know. Here, they started pumping brine on the roads a number of years back. It does keep the freezing rain somewhat under control at first, but once it gets going, the salt becomes overwhelmed and is irrelevant. Then they use salt mixed with the rock like residue from coal fired power plants and dump that on everything. The rocky stuff acts like super aggressive sand blasting media and does a nice job of getting rid of any excess paint you may have.
But I can't complain, as I live in the heart of Anthracite coal country, and it is everywhere around here. What else would they use? Imported sand? And they'd have to import it: we're all rock, coal, shale and boulders. Which is why I have a '97 F150 that I use. When it finally croaks, I'll replace it, but I have a company vehicle for work, so the F150 is just for winter driving and hunting and picking up lumber and such. It also carries Xs400s well. The rest of the time, it sleeps in the garage. The company changes my vehicle periodically, and I spend the vast amount of my driving time in it. It is the one that gets salted so badly. I feel sorry for it.
But I can't complain, as I live in the heart of Anthracite coal country, and it is everywhere around here. What else would they use? Imported sand? And they'd have to import it: we're all rock, coal, shale and boulders. Which is why I have a '97 F150 that I use. When it finally croaks, I'll replace it, but I have a company vehicle for work, so the F150 is just for winter driving and hunting and picking up lumber and such. It also carries Xs400s well. The rest of the time, it sleeps in the garage. The company changes my vehicle periodically, and I spend the vast amount of my driving time in it. It is the one that gets salted so badly. I feel sorry for it.
Spad
XS400 Addict
Well at least it gives the coalminers some work. I have my trusty 98 GMC 4 banger extended cab for the wintertime, it has 102,000 miles and still going strong, motorcycles fit in the back. The Mini-Cooper does good in the snow and gets washed off underneath asap..The Mustang and Miata and bikes hibernate for the winter...Spad
for the winter...Spad
how many months of the year is there actual snow where you guys live? Here there's snow for about a week, sometimes a month or max two months, depending on the harshness of the winter. So I just ride all year long, quite happy with the brine on the roads since it keeps them nice and clean.
Yea there is a nice bit of salt corrosion on my engine, but to me it's not a show stopper, it's a great piece of loveable machine, but a workhorse nonetheless. If it didn't want to get corroded, it shouldn't have become a bike.
Yea there is a nice bit of salt corrosion on my engine, but to me it's not a show stopper, it's a great piece of loveable machine, but a workhorse nonetheless. If it didn't want to get corroded, it shouldn't have become a bike.
Snow varies, but it is very hilly/mountainous here: it is called the "ridge and valley" region with good cause. Lots of old, steep, rocky mountain ridges with long narrow valleys. So when it does snow, the stuff on the north facing slopes stays, and then melts/freezes/melts/freezes/etc. Nice surprises on shaded curves when you least expect it! We usually have here-today/gone-tomorrow snow by mid-Dec, but from mid-late Jan on we often get quite a bit that often lingers. All gone by March.
Coal mining is now mountaintop removal by giant excavator. The ones they assemble on site, do the job with, disassemble and haul away to some other location. No more getting the shaft.
The salt thing is very much a show stopper for me. Years ago I rode all year round because it was all I had: two wheels, rain or shine, sleet or snow, or walk. . But I'm now an old goat and won't ride in the wet if I don't have to. Plus, I have the company vehicle, so I never commute in a personal vehicle. Use of motorcycles for my job is prohibited by the company. They frown on using personal car, would rather we get a rental. Can't carry what I'd need anyway. So they shiver in the garage for the winter.
Coal mining is now mountaintop removal by giant excavator. The ones they assemble on site, do the job with, disassemble and haul away to some other location. No more getting the shaft.
The salt thing is very much a show stopper for me. Years ago I rode all year round because it was all I had: two wheels, rain or shine, sleet or snow, or walk. . But I'm now an old goat and won't ride in the wet if I don't have to. Plus, I have the company vehicle, so I never commute in a personal vehicle. Use of motorcycles for my job is prohibited by the company. They frown on using personal car, would rather we get a rental. Can't carry what I'd need anyway. So they shiver in the garage for the winter.
Spad
XS400 Addict
Up here in the desert we don't get much snow, sometimes just a few inches, doesn't stay for long...Coupla years ago had about a foot, my Siberian Husky loves it...Mostly it is cold in the winter and like Yamahaguy big worry is ice hiding under freeway overpasses and other shaded areas. We get 300 days of sun here so winter riding is something I do but never after they have salted the roads, I wait until it is washed away or gone..Spoiled, don't want to ruin my bikes or cars...I have good winter riding gear so a short ride is always welcome...Sunny and in the 70's Fahrenheit right now....Spad
...Mostly it is cold in the winter and like Yamahaguy big worry is ice hiding under freeway overpasses and other shaded areas. We get 300 days of sun here so winter riding is something I do but never after they have salted the roads, I wait until it is washed away or gone..Spoiled, don't want to ruin my bikes or cars...I have good winter riding gear so a short ride is always welcome...Sunny and in the 70's Fahrenheit right now....Spad