Looking to take my XS400 Seca dual sporting

[OnePhate]

Has anyone ever converted the XS400 into a dual sport?

I would like to run some bigger DOT/offroad tires and get some more suspension travel out of it.

How would I go about all of this?

 

[MechNewb]

Well you can get longer rear shocks. I think you can go to about 14" before you get any contact issues. I would think you would have to swap out your forks to get front suspension. As for tires, hopefully someone else can say how big you can go.

 

[Jake2670]

well, its been awhile, I'm on same venture, how did urs turn out?

 

[pbr206]

Been another long while, and I am interested as well...

Any takers?

 

[Ethanl]

im in the process of building a scrambler/brat myself for this reason for fishing a lot of lake roads are gravel and not the best but wanted to build a bike that's fun to ride and able to take me to work and play it started its life as an 83 XS400 DOHC with the mono shock in figuring more on a dirt bike style suspension avail. looking to run the shinko 700 or 705 tires im thinking

 

[pbr206]

After doing some research, that is the direction i am going with my 1980 xs400g.

I want it to be subtle, except for the tires, no way to hide those shinko 705's, those make a statement.

But my plan is to get this bike roadworthy, play around and get comfortable/gain riding experience, then im off to mexico for a motorcycle excursion.

The roads of mexico are above average considering the priorities of their government. But there will definitely be roads in baha that i will want to go down that are gravel, to sand, and bumpy. Mainland mexico i will probably stick to major freeways, although there are some camping spots in the south accessible only by unmaintained primitive roads, a little worse than our own forest service roads, that are comprised mostly of clay and loose soil.

So, im thinking at a minimum i will need shinkos and taller rear suspension. Any ideas how the front suspension will do on these roads?

 

[bmaster]

about the rear suspension. I'm also rebuilding a XS400 dohc (SECA). I wanted a longer rear suspension because the custom seat+frame were too close to the rear wheel.
I found some results on this forum. One guy used a shock from a XT350 (1980-1990). this shock is H-H 20mm longer than the 400dohc shock I have.
this extension of 20mm will result in an extra distance between the seat and tire of 40-45mm.

The bushing diameter of that shock is the same. only the bushing lengths are different. but that is pretty easy to fix.

 

[Ethanl]

I helped clearance mine with a café/brat cut in the rear frame don't know the actual numbers fro clearance but looks like it should be a good clear and fit the other thing to look and watch for is your chain contact and if your going to mess with the sprocket size for better trail/highway rpm and use.
pbr206 would be cool to hook up for a ride once both are done to compare ride and design share thoughts and wisdom as these seem to be a rare build here and also the same to you bmaster how much stiffer is the ride I wonder?

 

[pbr206]

I helped clearance mine with a café/brat cut in the rear frame don't know the actual numbers fro clearance but looks like it should be a good clear and fit the other thing to look and watch for is your chain contact and if your going to mess with the sprocket size for better trail/highway rpm and use.
pbr206 would be cool to hook up for a ride once both are done to compare ride and design share thoughts and wisdom as these seem to be a rare build here and also the same to you bmaster how much stiffer is the ride I wonder?

@Ethanl Totally! I plan on heading down to Bend/Sisters in early June, and I'm hoping to have my bike ready by then (barring any major problems, and of course I just doomed myself by saying that...).

I will say that at the moment, I am sick of looking at tires, it appears that my only options for a tubeless rear tire is by switching to an 17inch+ rear rim, then I have to worry about clearance, rubbing, width etc. etc. etc... This is starting to become a headache.

Considering I have the stock 16inch spoked rear, will any old rim work on this bike as long as there is clearance? My concern is I dont know shit about motorcycle rims, I have drum brakes and it seems like I am stuck with stock, and therefore non-dual sport tires...

Also I am planning to remove the rear fender and minimize (i.e. tuck in/or remove completely) the rear splash guard. I am hesitant to chop anything yet, and moving forward, I plan to use this bike as a camping/touring bike, so it would seem that chopping the rear might negate my ability to have panniers or luggage, or even a sissy bar style rear stay.

I have the stock "stepped" seat, and going 8000+ miles sitting on the frame does not sound appealing, so I don't think I will be installing any cafe/tracker style hoop seats.

you seem to be comfortable chopping things, is that 100% necessary for clearance to have larger knobby tires?

and to be clear, I dont care if the tires are larger or smaller, or look funny or whatever, I am just interested in performance something like 60/40 street/dirt.

This is what I will be riding on/around (not for the whole trip, but for a good portion through Baja):

It's sand mostly, some areas are gravelly...

EDIT: By the way, Beautiful Bike!

 

[pbr206]

Also, when talking about clearance, which area(s) are of the most concern?

Is it that the suspension travel may allow for a larger tire to rub against a fender/frame?

or (and I'm assuming this is the bigger issue) is the width of the frame/swingarm the bigger concern?

If it is a suspension issue, can that be resolved by taller rear suspension?

 

[Ethanl]

one way around the tubeless tire would be the foam inserts used by enduro and trials riders maybe worth a look and as far as clearance I haven't paid to much attention to the seat to wheel yet myself but as far as the inner fender mine dosent have one as of yet I will be doing a thin rubber or abs plastic that will be minimal thickness and also easy to bend just to keep stuff semi dry in the event of weather while out and about as far as the seat and luggage or bags I thought about building some leather style bags to hid my battery and electrics and maybe hold a few tools also the buy it now seats for brats may or may not be comfortable due to my budget im building mine and im using a 1" thick closed cell high density foam as the base then a high density chair foam that's 1"1/2 -2" on top for a total of about 2" thick seat with a mild soft then a more solid base well see if I change my mind on the buy it now seats after I ride it for a few miles/hours the only thing to watch for is chain to frame with going taller on the rear shock height so maybe keeping a smaller rim and a taller tire maybe better allowing more sidewall absorption also problem is ordering tires checking fit and clearances and trying to send them back if they don't work out could check pirelli tires also

 

[Ethanl]

check out the Pirelli scorpion rally str I believe they are tubeless
also this tire 110/90R-18 (61L) Tube/Tubeless Shinko Trail Pro 255 Radial Trials Tire

 

[16VGTIDave]

Be careful guys. Foam, mousse, and most Trials tires are not road legal or safe on the road. The foam can't take the heat of road use and will lead to a flat (or worse). Trials tires have a very soft carcass and rubber compound so they conform to rocks and grip exceptionally well, but they will overheat and melt away on the road. Do the research and spend your money wisely.

 

[pbr206]

Be careful guys. Foam, mousse, and most Trials tires are not road legal or safe on the road. The foam can't take the heat of road use and will lead to a flat (or worse). Trials tires have a very soft carcass and rubber compound so they conform to rocks and grip exceptionally well, but they will overheat and melt away on the road. Do the research and spend your money wisely.

Yeah this may be the biggest/toughest decision i make regarding the bike... i hope...

However, in talking with some techs over the weekend, and one who commutes on an enduro with tubed tires, they did not say that tubed tires are bad. Yes, they have their downsides, but they are equally capable, and equally safe, even on longer trips. Their bigger concern was with tubed tires in very warm climates with prolonged freeway travel (60+mph) heat becomes a bigger factor.

When i told them i am fixing a bike and i plan on taking it to mexico in september they laughed at me, not for the idea of such a trip, but the notion that i can get it ready by september.

Challenge accepted.

 

[Ethanl]

@16VGTIDave didn't not think about the heat on that..... maybe would be best on something like that or with that kind of trip to have two sets of wheels send one set down to a hotel and have them waiting for the leg of the trip threw most of the soft sandy offroad then switch back to a fresh set of highway tires for the return trip as I would imagine the tires after that long of a trip my show wear already

 

[pbr206]

Yeah, thats pricey too. But definitely an option.

My goal is to make it from seattle to cancun via baja and the pacific coast crossing through chiapas, and on to cancun where i know a family that i will be staying with. I could definitely have them sent there, but that means i still have to ride 4k+ miles on combo dirt/asphalt.

However, this is mexico... and by nature of this trip, i dont know which town i will be in night to night, except for major ones like oaxaca. Mexico is a fascinating place when it comes to automotive repair, im sure that in some small town i can pick up some tires and perhaps wheels, if i get lucky, but id rather have a set that is capable of the whole trip down.

For the return leg, i plan on sticking to the freeways along the gulf, up through to texas, and across the southwest US to the pacific again and back up to seattle. so that is where an alternate set of tires would be helpful.

I might just find a decently reviewed set of dual sport tubed tires, and carry some spares. But, considering most tubed tites are meant for dirtbikes, i worry they cant handle the load... bike will be close to 450lbs with luggage, plus me at a hefty 215lbs, although i typically drop about ten pounds in warm environments.

 

[Ethanl]

so your doing a similar ride to what Cody Quinn did with Kendall Norman and ya there probably isn't much more than the shade tree mechanic down there either let alone getting lucky and finding a set of wheels to fit and XS maybe make a light bar for the back to hold spare rubber and tubes and one of the co2 tire inflator kits

 

[16VGTIDave]

Forget CO2 and bring a small bicycle pump. CO2 would take many cartridges to inflate a motorcycle tire to pressure, only to be disposed of. Pumps just take time and effort, but are infinite. With all the tools that should be carried, the added weight of disposable cartridges aren't reasonable on a small bike.

 

[pbr206]

Yeah, bike pump, patch kit, spare tubes, and probably contact cement or something (dont know if contact cement is safe for use with tire/tube rubber)

Im not familiar with cody or kendall...

I guess really, im not trying to do the Baja rally, but i need a bike, or rather i need to make my XS capable of riding on dirt roads.

The good news is that compared to modern bikes, the xs is very light and has a low center of gravity. Since i dont plan on ripping down a desolate baja back road at 60mph, having a low center of gravity and low weight is a good thing!

However, low speeds and loose sand mean tipping over... that's where tires become crucial (plus rider skill, and since i have none, im totally relying on the tires)

But that's where the xs has its downsides, lack of options.

In my travels down there, i have seen plenty of older yamaha's and honda's. I have a small amount of faith that i will be able to find a mechanic capable of rigging up a fix for something, but the tires... those just cant be fixed.

Also, as my friends noted on their trip, there are small button cacti with thorns more than capable of puncturing even an automotive radial.... so yeah. Lots more planning to do, and lots more work on the bike...

 

[Ethanl]

ya sounds like maybe best bet would be trying to ride out here in central Oregon we have a lot of the same rock/sand/hard pack terrain all over here in the high desert maybe a way to test it out and see before the main voyage! and true a bike pump would be most weight and space effective I always threw one of those co2 kits in my back pack more or less to make it back to the truck rolling on something other than the rim