Problems after oil change.

[FiXT]

So I purchased my 83 Maxim 400 about a few months ago. Everything was going fine until I left the petcock on the prime position overnight. Drained and changed the oil and filter. Let everything dry.

Prior to changing the oil I looked at a few places and they recommended 10w40. So that's what I got, Castrol 10w40 Conventional motor oil.

I was wondering if anyone else had this problem or that I made a dumb mistake and purchased the wrong motor oil for my bike. When you first start up the bike, sounds good. No back-fires, but after about 15-30 minutes of riding when the engine is getting really hot, it starts to knock at higher rpms, especially between shifts. Best way to explain would be *Throttle* *let off throttle*(little rattle as the rpm's come down below 4000) and shift. While on the mainroads, above 60mph/95kph when the rpm is at about 5/6k you'll hear the same sound, rapid rattle noise.

The bike has grown on me and it's only got 12k on the motor and I'd like to get many more miles on it. Any suggestions?

 

[bcware]

Castrol motorcycle oil? or car oil? 10w40 is lighter than I would run in an air cooled bike, but it shouldn't hurt anything so long as it is motorcycle oil.

My suggestion is to start by having someone experienced with engines listen to make sure what you're hearing is engine noise. It could easily be a loose fixture of some kind simply rattling at higher rpms when the engine is vibrating more.

This could also easily be a coincidence as it is very unlikely the oil has anything to do with it UNLESS you ran the bike for an extended period of time with the gas soaked engine oil before it was changed. If you did, then you could have damaged the engine.

If you got the wrong oil all it will do is mess up the shifting and it can be completely cured by putting the correct oil back in.

 

[Lou Ranger]

Welcome to the Forum.A good thread if you are interested in the slippery business of the right oil:

http://www.xs400.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9701

 

[FiXT]

As far as the gas soaked engine, I refused to turn the bike on due to the fact I had realized I left the petcock on prime, It was an immediate drain ( very long drain ) along with an extended amount of time waiting for the gas to evaporate out of the carbs.

The problem with my area is that the only trustworthy advice I could possibly get would be from a Harley dealership 30 miles away. From what I was told by the previous owner (an elderly guy in his 70's and local auto shops), I was told "10w40 convetional".

My father owns a harley dyna-low rider and he just told me to put in the 3 bottles of 20w50 v-twin oil he had unopened on the shelves.

this current oil change has 700 miles on it with the 10w40. The noises started at roughly 600. Since then I've tried cutting back on taking it out for pro-longed periods of time.

 

[Lou Ranger]

... the only trustworthy advice I could possibly get would be from a Harley dealership 30 miles away. From what I was told by the previous owner (an elderly guy in his 70's and local auto shops), I was told "10w40 convetional".

My father owns a harley dyna-low rider and he just told me to put in the 3 bottles of 20w50 v-twin oil he had unopened on the shelves ...

The old guy probably remembers old Harleys - which apparently used dry clutches before they gave up trying to keep oil out with their lousy seals.
Your Dad's oil is likely exactly what you need.

Here is an interesting posting from a forum which basically supports everything generally written here about the xs400:

"Many racing designs use the dry design for ease of maintenance, whereas most road bikes keep in inside and lubricated.With wet clutches they sometimes get "sticky" as the oil develops a viscous bond between the metal and fiber covered plates. This often results in a "clunk" when engaging first gear, particularly when the lube is thick as when cold. My Suzuki Boulevard sometimes does this, so I put it in gear, pull the clutch lever and rock the bike to release the plates before starting the bike. Works well and minimizes the clunk and driveline shock.
Wet clutches, since they use some form of internal lubrication, are prone to slippage with the wrong oil. Common knowledge suggests that motor oils with the Starburst on the label should be avoided as they contain friction modifiers which can allow slippage. Most oils with a viscosity rating of 10W-40 and above don't have those friction modifiers or starburst, but I wouldn't bet that's universally true. Many motorcycle specific oils often have a JASO MA rating which means they've been tested to be safe tor wet clutches.
I use Mobil 1, either the 15W-50 Gold Cap or 5W-40 Truck & SUV rated diesel oils and have not experienced clutch slippage in any of my motorcycles. "
​

 

[bcware]

I agree with Lou.

If you can describe the sound better I might be able to help; even a recording might work.

If you did not run the bike with gas in the oil I would wager that the oil selection is not related to the noise.

Either you have an engine problem that was just a coincidence or the sound is something else. If you're unfamiliar with many motorcycles you might be hearing valve train noise.

If you're new it's easy to become biased once you have a problem; you had gas in your oil and you might now be listening more intently for a problem than in the past when you were not actively looking for problems. The sound may have been occurring all along.

I'm just throwing some ideas around. I might be wrong!

 

[FiXT]

Not going to lie, I'm fairly new to motorcycles. I had my father listen to it after I had it on the highway after a 15 mile stretch and he said this "it sounds exactly the same as when I was first there when you bought it".

So maybe it is a "new-rider bias".

After looking up valve train noise (in general). It sounds something like

but no where near as loud, nor does the noise begin right after the first start up.

It's currently raining here, and probably will be raining all day. If I can I'll see if I can get it warmed up enough or just post a recording within the next couple days.

But, while I was asleep he went and picked up this http://imgur.com/2FZrjvH and something tells me since this only says "SAE", that this is deffinately not the correct oil. Since there is no JASO rating on it. He has just used the vtwin oil he had sitting on the shelf for his bike.

I hate being new to things, for this being my first motorcycle and the fact that this is my first year riding, its grown on me pretty bad.

 

[bcware]

That is car oil; it should not be used. The only "car" oil that is appropriate would be the diesel rotella t stuff because it has the correct ratings and such. I would avoid anything else that isn't specifically for motorcycles. I'm sure there are other appropriate brands out there that work, but I have no idea what they are. Everyone uses rotella t or a motorcycle specific oil.

Advanced autoparts/autozone do not make a "house" brand of motorcycle specific oil. They usually sell valvoline or castrol motorcycle oil. The castrol is very expensive. The conventional valvoline is more reasonable but still way more expensive than what he bought (it's usually about 5-6 bucks a quart).

See if you can find a coupon somewhere. They mail them to me all the time.

 

[FiXT]

Ok well so far I've got this, 5 Minutes of warming up and this is how the motor sounds.

 

[FiXT]

That is car oil; it should not be used. The only "car" oil that is appropriate would be the diesel rotella t stuff because it has the correct ratings and such. I would avoid anything else that isn't specifically for motorcycles.

Yeah I figured as much, that's why I haven't bothered changing the oil yet. Once I woke up and saw what he had bought (probably after he had been drinking) I assumed it was the wrong oil. So I've got the receipt to take it back and get the proper oil.

So would it be safe for me to get say a 20w-50 Mobil1 V-twin http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...cycle-motorcycle-oil-1-quart-112630/8026542-P oil even though it's not a v-twin or should I be hunting for a specific oil?

On an editing note, I found the oil bottles for the last oil change, As it did turn out I was using Castrol 10w40 Motor Oil (the car kind). When I went in there, I went in there blindly and told the guys behind the desk the same thing I was told "Where is your 10w40 conventional". So as it stands, the bike has been running 700 miles on 10w40 car oil, I really hope I didn't mess anything up.

 

[bcware]

That's a bit noisy, but sounds within the range of normal to me.

As a general rule if you're "not sure" it's probably normal. It's like smelling milk; if you're not sure if it's bad it is fine. When it goes bad you'll know for certain!

If it sounds like metal smashing against metal there is a problem. You'll know, because when you hear it you'll say "oh shit!"

People seem to think rotella t oil quiets things down. That, and you can adjust the valves at some point. Other than that I think you're fine at least!

Yes, I use that "v-twin" oil all the time. It is just marketed as a "v-twin" oil because often they require heavier weight oil (20w50) instead of the 10w40 more common in other types of bikes. That and it makes people buy it because they think it's required! It isn't; it's the same as any other 20w50 motorcycle oil.

 

[FiXT]

If it sounds like metal smashing against metal there is a problem. You'll know, because when you hear it you'll say "oh shit!"

Well after about a good 30 minutes of riding and your on the highway staying at about 6 grand in 5th gear, it gets a little louder. No power loss, just a louder ticking (not so much banging) of the noise that was in the video.

 

[bcware]

Valves tend to sound more like ticking, fluttering, and whirring.

The thing is, like any small bike, you'll be at high rpms when you're on the highway. The bike will be working much harder than you're used to in other sorts of vehicles. It's common for people to think there is something wrong with the engine because of this (it's much louder than they expect it to be).

It won't hurt these little bikes to be on the highway for a long time, but they will be working a lot harder to stay there than a comparatively larger motorcycle or your car which is geared to stay at fairly low rpms around 65 mph.

My big Honda cruiser is basically at idle at 65 mph. My xs400 is screaming like a banshee!

 

[FiXT]

Alright so with all this said, I'm alright. Just make sure to change the oil to a JASO MA rated oil. Any recommendations on specific oil? 15w40/15w50/etc...? I just want to make sure I get it right this time so I don't have to worry about it until the next oil change. Only 12k miles on the motor, I'm hoping to get a ton more out of it

You guys have been a great deal of help, thank you very much!

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Rotella-T-15W-40-Heavy-Duty-Diesel-Oil-1-gal./14958327 (Is this a good choice?) Walmart doesn't have in the description JASO MA but the reviews say it is.

 

[bcware]

I might give the 15w40 rotella t a shot just because so many people say that it quiets things down. As an alternative I would get the valvoline 20w50.

It's all personal preference of course; other people will recommend other things. There really isn't a single right answer. In hot weather with lots of stop and go traffic I would stick with 20w50 over anything else. Milder climates and less city riding might warrant using 10w40, etc.

The rotella t in the white bottle from wal mart 15w40 is the correct one. The blue bottle is the synthetic and comes in a lighter weight I believe.

 

[FiXT]

Alright, well I went and got the Valvoline 20w50 Motorcycle oil. Thanks again for all the help. Better to be safe than sorry.

 

[bcware]

Report back how it goes. I've been using that stuff in mine for some time now; it seems to work just fine!

 

[Lou Ranger]

One additional note - be careful even when picking up a gallon of Rotella T on sale somewhere.
There are at least 4 kinds of "Rotella T" oils, but only 2 of them seem to carry the JASO / MA rating.
Rotella T3 and Rotella T5 do NOT carry them, while Rotella T Triple and Rotella T6 synthetic both do carry the rating.

 

[FiXT]

Reporting back with some decent news, I used the Valvoline 20w-50. So far so good it seems. Within the week I know I'll end up putting at least a 100 miles on her. I want to say I've noticed some changed but a quick 20 mile highway trip isn't a good judge.

The one thing that I did notice was gone (so far) was the rattle on the highway when your going 60+mph/6k rpm. One side note is that the clutch is no longer "slamming" the bike when dropping into first (could just be a fluke today).

I'll give a full update weather permits and I can get some good miles in.

 

[16VGTIDave]

Did everyone miss that this bike is a Maxim with the DOHC engine? The oil for this engine is supposed to be 10W40 JASO MA rated. "V-Twin" oil (and 20W50) is too thick and won't flow well enough to the cams. It may have friction modifiers that may cause the clutch to slip, if it isn't JASO MA rated or at least "wet clutch" rated.

I have used Castrol ($$$ and broke down very quickly), Rotella T Triple (broke down quickly), and now use Rotella T6 exclusively. I currently have +5k km on this oil change and have only had to add about 1/4L so far. Not bad for a 30+ year old engine! This includes extended highway runs, city riding, and low speed trail riding. The only issue I have with this oil is that when it gets above 100C (212F) the shifting gets notchy. But that will happen with any oil and doesn't occur too often.