Troubleshooting of first ride gone wrong.

[birk]

First of all, Hello fellow XS 400 owners, And a warm "hej" from denmark.

Finding and reading on this site has only confirmed and strenghtend my choice of bike!

Yamaha XS 400 80' 2A2

But; (warring!: studpid actions ahead) I got my bike home little over a month ago. Eger to try it I jumped on it, and it started in first try with kick starter. That without knowing where the clutch was, only knowing where to speed (in 1th gear) since I also didn't know where and/or how to switch. But my gosh it was beautiful!


What led me to such stupidity and brave idiocracy stille puzzels me, nontheless it drow and i was happy until i tryed to figur out how to shift gears; while driving. I tryed to push down the shift pad (only making it go into 1th again and again, without using the clutch) until black smoke suddenly came out and the motor went dead. I tryed starting it again but this time i would not start in the first try nor in the second. After several tryes with the kick starter (electric start dosn't work) it finally did start only to die out after a few secs. I later found out that there was gasolin in the oil. i suspect this is something i have provoked...

Since then i have read (ALOT) in both a danish book called The motorcycle handbook, who gives the reader a good and basic knowledge of older bikes (mid 50' to 70') and ofcouse the Haynes. I have also had the carbs out and cleaned them putting in a new swimneedel and adjusting the float level to the specs of the book. I have changed the oile and also bougt a new fuelfilter.

Today i got it all reassembled and tryed to start it. With no luck.
Where do i start from here??

 

[Specdog]

Finding gas in the oil is not likely something you did. It's a common problem when buying an old bike. Mine had a liter of gas in the crankcase when I bought it.
When trying to start an engine after a carb rebuild, you should check the basic things first. Is fuel getting to the engine. Did you set the petcock to prime prior to starting? Are your carbs overflowing gas?

 

[birk]

How do i know if the fuel is getting to the engine? The petcock was/is set to ON.
But I'll try and take another look at the float level and see if that maybe makes them overfloat.

Thanks for the tip, but what stille haunts me is the possibility of something being torn or broken in the motor, from my first ride.

 

[xschris]

Here is a good thread to start with http://www.xs400.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10595

 

[Scorpio1963]

Somewhat related to learning how to shift gears on a bike I had an advantage that I got to practice on my neighbors 4 wheeler before actualy trying it on my bike.
As for your engine problem change the oil,clean and check everything in the carbs,replace the plugs and see if you can get your engine running.

 

[Lou Ranger]

... and adjusting the float level to the specs of the book ...

Welcome to the Forum.
You mentioned setting the floats to what it says in the book. I have the dohc, but I have read on here that one of the popular books (I think Haynes) has the wrong float height listed (thirty something). Apparently the height should be less (high 20s somewhere) to avoid overflowing etc.
Do a Google search of the site (top left corner) and you will likely be able to find which book(s) are wrong on which models and what the proper height is.

Best of luck!

 

[birk]

Thanks for all the positive feedback despite my clear lack of skills for owning such a fine piece of machinery!

xschris: Thanks, i can gladly inform you that this particular post already has drawn my attention and helped me a great deal. It pops up quiet fast after you start searching on beginners problems

scorpio1963: I think i actually underestimated the complexsity of the bike mechanics, since our 4 wheeler only have F, N and B. It's all so very new to me, a month ago i didn't even know how a engine worked?!, just to give you an idea of my "soon-to-be-goon" ignorance!

To lou and all of you: I got the carbs out and cleaned them once again, also finding what might(must be!) the problem to the error. When i previously adjusted the float level, i did it on the tap that was supposed to push the float needle, making it hold the float needle up all the time. So... yea, no gas to the motor. I checked the float spec error and found alot of talk about making it around 26 mm so i also went ahead and changed it, just to be safe! carbs... i start to see the picture. I also had a leak in between the petcock and fueltank and decied to use liquid gasket. Taking the effects of gas in consideration, i fear this isnt a long term solution, any tips?

I haven't tryed starting it yet, since the gasket needs to dry, but ill give an update on that tomorrow.

 

[birk]

Hello ppl.

today i got it all reassembled and tryed to start it.
i didn't. when i use the kickstart, the lights on the dashboard turns off and then come back on a few secs after i used the kickstarter but no ignition.'

 

[Lupe]

the green neutral light turns off too?

The red one for Oil is ok, but the neutral should stay on until you put in a gear.

 

[Recreateme]

If the battery gets to low it won't trip the relay and the lights won't work.. Frequent start attempts will drain the battery and after a enough you wont have enough power to trip the relays. Perhaps this means you just need to charge the battery a while and try again.

 

[Scorpio1963]

That or keep your battery charger on the battery till it starts.If you get it started keep the bike running take off the battery charger and test your voltage on the battery.

 

[birk]

I really doubt that the cause is missing power. both the red and green goes off, which i think could indicate some sort of failure in the electric system itself. but what, i really dont dare say, but the previous owner told me that the generator wont recharge and that the electric start wont work. :/ got to get a closer look into how that works, in the weekend.

just to be on the safe side:

the cord in the bottom of the pic, attached to the battery case; is that correct?

 

[Greasey Fingers]

You have some wrong fuses there. Bottom is correct (20) and second to top is correct (10) but the other 2 are not. The main one is 20 which you have there (yellow) then the rest are all 10 (red). I would put the correct fuses in before you try start her again Im not sure what that cable is attached to the battery tray at the bottom, mine doesn't have one there.

 

[Pork Chop]

Isn't that to ground the frame?

Posted via Mobile

 

[xschris]

The top wire to the box should go to the harness ground. The ground to the battery should go to the frame/engine. Not sure why there is another ground on the box at the bottom?

 

[birk]

so all should be red except the lower one? im not sure i understand you, english isnt my first language, but if it is the fuse then could this also be the cause of my error when using the kickstarter?

But to update my situation i found the right spot for the bottom cord (i'll post pic soon) and i got the battery charged with no luck, so i tryed to unconnect the sparkplugs to see if it was then who jamed the system but it didnt change anything.

i will see if i can get a video up to night showing the problem

thanks all you guys! when i get stuck this place makes me going again!

 

[Greasey Fingers]

so all should be red except the lower one?

yes

 

[TimmyT]

Going back to the beginning, your bike started on the first kick was running and now wont start. Your fuses of course need to be changed. Other than that there are not what could we narrow it down to... fuel delivery?. There could be a couple things or just one. To start with the small ones and obvious will cheapest and easiest.

Can you push the bike while its not running and change gears 1, N, and 2nd... is your clutch in working order? Have you checked your valve clearances or that the timing is set properly? will your battery hold a charge when if you disconnect it from the bike?

Once every component that plays a factor in your bike running is inspected and tested to be good then you can begin to iscolate the issue. Non running bike... tough to diagnose ... non working parts, very easy to test for.

Look up the wiring diagram for your bike... all the components carbs and engine will be there. Once you look at each part involved you can search the forum and find out how to test each one to see if it is functional. You can also check the continuity on your connections in the harness and ensure everything is routed properly. You can also test to make sure that you are not grounding out when you shouldnt be and other vital components are secure to ground. (points ground for split seconds, signals ground when turned on, horn grounds when the putton is pushed to touch the handlebars and the killswitch disrupts/connects power from the main fuse)

A video will probabally help with a list of things we can rule out. Set your petcock to RES with stock fuel filters if its below 1/3 tank as well... most of us still get tricked by that one. (fuel in engine....less fuel in tank....haha I left mine in PRI, almost drained the tank)

good luck, we all want you to succeed (we are building an army!)

 

[birk]

Hello guys. It sure has been a while, but after a new stator and regulator, it's now able to recharge! and the carbs was also calibrated in the process, but....over the last couple of days, it has started to act "funny". The first thing i noticed was a very poor acceleration fx. if I took a left in a low gear, it would have a very hard time regaining the same amount of rpm and, when it did, the rest of the shifts would be affected in acceleration...Then yesterday after a short trip, i felt on the exhaust pips and the left was cold?? ..at first i just blamed the cold weather and went straight ahead and felt on the right one, which resulted in burned fingertips..

At first i thought it needed a new calibration of the carbs, because this had ocurred before, one being cold and one being hot, so i went ahead and closed the right at little bit. At first it seemed to work, but there was now comming white'ish smoke out of left pipe..i have read some posts, saying/talking/guessing, it might be the rings on the cylinder, that is broken.
I have checked the oil, it being at the minimum mark. Heres a Video for you guys, I hope you can set me on the right path to solve this problem!

best wishes from denmark!
-birk

 

[xschris]

With that much smoke it could be rings. I would do a compression test on both.