Trying to start, sounds clacky (audio)

[Edward]

I finally got to trying to start the old XS for the first time since buying her. I'm not convinced every nook and cranny of the carb is perfectly clean, but I was eager to try see if it would start.

I bolted in the carb, plugged up the vacuum lines and ran a temporary gas tank (with fuel filter, of course). I had the battery charged up and the bike in neutral when I tried to start it up. In addition to sounding like it's trying to start, it has a super loud clack.

I took a video:

Any ideas what it could be? I haven't anything other than removing and replacing the carbs. I did remove the 4 valve caps, but didn't do any adjustments and screwed them back in.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Scorpio1963]

Thats your starter,remove your carbs and take off the cover.Unloosen the two bolts in the back and remove the starter.Use a screw driver to hold the gear up n place thats infront of the starter where it turns the engine over.If the gear and chain drop theres a thread I made about how to solve that problem.Your starter may have to be taken apart and cleaned or you may have to replace it.Also check the wire connecting to the starter and make sure its good and the connection terminal is not corroded.Hope this helps.

 

[xschris]

Sounds like a sticky starter clutch. Have you tried the kick start it?

 

[Edward]

Thanks for replies, guys! I just took off the cover and I have no idea what I'm looking at.

The kickstart turns the engine over no problem (doesn't start, but that could be a multitude of things right now).

The starter itself seems to spin fine, as far as I know. It spins and sounds alright. I do think that it's the starter clutch, as when I hold the starter button, sometimes it sounds like it engages and actually turns the engine, while sometimes it spins freely at full speed.

I figured with that kind of a sound, I'd be able to see some kind of fresh metal gouges, the only ones I could see were on the edge of the "teeth." Is that normal wear, or an indicator that something has gone wrong (like the springs).

If it is the clutch, is it a matter of finding a new one, getting the extractor tool then replacing it as shown here: http://www.xs400.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7989

Thanks for any thoughts!

Edward

 

[Scorpio1963]

How loose is that the chain from the starter gear to the engine?Could it be possible that the chain is jumping teeth when the starter is engaged?I recently had mine apart it was pretty tight with about a 1/2 inch of play.

 

[Edward]

Good point, it does look a little loose compared to the other pictures I've seen online. If you look closely, you can see that the chain ate into the edge of the paper gasket on the top.

Would I be able to see some damage from the jumping chain on the sprocket? Is the chain tensioner adjustable at all?

I'll take a look and report back!

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Scorpio1963]

Yes and I dont know the 2cnd one.You might be able to remove a link from the chain though.

 

[xschris]

If its not catching its the starter clutch (not the engine clutch). The chain will have slack in it.

 

[Scorpio1963]

So as I see in the diagram the clutch is behind the altenator and if it goes bad Then it has to be replaced correct?I ask this cause not my starter is starting to make the same noise as in the video.
Then what is part # 7?

 

[Brian43204]

sounds like mine did when the starter was dead. Is the starter hot to the touch when you try that?

 

[Edward]

Sorry to bring back this old thread, but I finally got into the starter clutch this morning. (I put off this bike for the last year, but my GF just took the MSF and is interested in riding).

When I removed the rotor/clutch assembly, one of the cylinders fell out. I took a look at that one and noticed that one of the springs was a little shorter/broken. (picture attached)

Is this likely the cause of the noise in the video above?

While I have the rotor/clutch out, is there anything I should inspect? The metal cylinders and the spring caps appear to be in good shape, could I go to an Ace Hardware and find a similar spring and swap out all three? All the repair kits I've seen include the cylinder/cap/spring to the tune of $30. I'll spend the money if I have to but I would love to be able to go grab springs from somewhere local and get it in, as long as the spring specs aren't too critical.

Thanks!

 

[Edward]

I forgot to mention, I'm 99% sure it's not the starter itself making the noise in my case. I watched the bolt on the rotor spin occasionally, and make the clacky noise when not spinning, as if the clutch wasn't engaging.

 

[xschris]

You may be able to match the springs up at a hardware store. I know there was some " kits" out there to rebuild these with new parts. How part/surface that rides on the rollers look? It should be smooth.

 

[Edward]

thanks for the reply!

To be honest, the more I look at the parts, I don't understand how the clutch engages. I understand that the rotor/clutch assembly is fixed to the shaft (with the woodruff key), then the sprocket somehow turns the clutch. How do the spring loaded dowels possibly have any purchase on the smooth sprocket?


I just went back out to inspect the parts, the three dowels feel perfectly smooth and round, the only wear that I can tell is on the two thinner sheet metal parts where you can see that the dowels were spinning and sliding in and out.

I measured the springs that were good and ordered replacements online, my caliper battery was dead, so I couldn't get the exact measurements (like the spring wire diameter), so we'll see if it works.

 

[xschris]

When the motor is running the part that is attached to the rotor will just spin free and the starter sprocket will stay stationary. Once the stater motor turns the sprocket the pins or barrels will slide out grabbing the sprocket turning the motor over. It kind of works like a ratchet wrench does only grabbing in one direction.

 

[Scorpio1963]

You will have to go to a specialty shop to match springs Ive never been able to find them at an autoparts store.I also think your probably better off looking on ebay or on the classified section buying the whole unit.Just my 2 cents

 

[xschris]

thanks for the reply!

To be honest, the more I look at the parts, I don't understand how the clutch engages. I understand that the rotor/clutch assembly is fixed to the shaft (with the woodruff key), then the sprocket somehow turns the clutch. How do the spring loaded dowels possibly have any purchase on the smooth sprocket?


I just went back out to inspect the parts, the three dowels feel perfectly smooth and round, the only wear that I can tell is on the two thinner sheet metal parts where you can see that the dowels were spinning and sliding in and out.

I measured the springs that were good and ordered replacements online, my caliper battery was dead, so I couldn't get the exact measurements (like the spring wire diameter), so we'll see if it works.

Another thing to do is flip the metal plate over so there are no wear marks where the barrels ride. The part in the bottom left of the pic. If the clutch housing is bad then you will need to replace it.

 

[Under Dog]

I've not been into my starter clutch yet. Is it the flat end of the larger cylinder that engages against the thin metal disk to start the bike? If so, is there any way to shim behind them to make up for the metal that's worn away?

--Nevermind... I found a great write-up someone did on removing this. Clearly the pics show that the springs push the cylinder outwards which cause the rounded ends of the cylinders to pinch down on the starter gear.

 

[xschris]

No . It's the three metal barrels that roll out a little to grab the sprocket shaft. It works kind of like a ratchet wrench.

 

[Edward]

I apologize if I'm a little dense, I still can't understand how the round metal barrels grab onto the smooth sprocket shaft. Wouldn't the barrels just spin or slide along the sprocket?