Typical broken kick start journal problem.

Petew

Petew

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I have a 1980 XS400 which did not have a kick start on it , but it was a running bike. I pulled the case cover today to find a broken journal for the shaft and a piece the was additionally cracked that fell down into the bottom of the motor. I believe that this happened when a perspective buyer mounted a kick start lever to the bike and proceeded to attempt to "break loose the frozen engine". It wasn't frozen up at all, the kickstart gear had been removed and he was jumping on a shaft that was parked against it's stop. I find this out after the fact. I had been told only that it had a broken return spring. My question(s) is this: If I remove the broken piece(s), and cut down the kick start shaft to act as a plug only, is this engine salvageable? I have another complete bike but would rather have 2 running bikes than one and a parts bike if that could be avoided. Thanks in advance for your help.
 
Been there, done that too, (not really) I had the side out, and jumped on in. It kinda sounds like the PO had put it in backwards.

I found a case on ebay, with the same case number. (4R4) Then I replaced the bottom of the case.
 
I can only guess what the PO did before but I know now when I find that he removed the gear and the spring from the shaft that he knew it was more than "just a broken return spring". I have a complete shaft/gear assembly that I was going to use. Now I will keep it around for future use. I just need to figure out if maybe I drop the screen off of it if I might be able to access the piece. If I do I will reassemble this as an electric start only bike.If not, I will learn how to rebuild and engine...I welcome any opinions!
 
Depending on your skills, there is(are) a thread/pic of a repaired kick start journal, a couple ways of repairing it, one person had reinforced the broken part with some steel banding material screwed in (I think) and another was able to weld the aluminum, (joined) the broken parts together, and moved on. I am guessing that the stress portion was suppose to be on the case, as oppose to the journal. so in my case when I kicked it without the outside case attached, it snapped.

My option that i opted for, just order a whole case, and replace the bottom, visual inspect for differences. My old case had a version stamp on it of V1, and the new had a stamp of V2. (or 2 and 3). check to see if you have cycle boneyard near by, they have people who know things too. and sometimes its easier just to get a good bike from a good source.
 
Thanks so much for your input. I believe I am going to embark on a learning experience overhauling an engine. I have basic mechanical skill and experience but I am, like my bikes, slightly rusty. This is why I ask so many rookie questions. Thanks again.
 
We all have started somewhere, for me I was an ok mechanic. I had previously replaced a Oldsmobile Problem gasket kit, that went between the v housing, and since then replaced 2 clutches on two newer cars. Everything makes sense when you start doing things. there is a couple things to worry about is over torqueing, and under torqueing. which I have had issues with frequently. and get the right screw drivers (JIS, generally not found locally)
 
I have been looking at cases and find no 3F8 cases but several 3F9 available...would these be interchangable or usable?
 
3F9 will be fine. It will have the same style mounting points as your 3F8 bike.
 
As always, thanks Chris. I still haven't given up on fishing out the piece that broke but I am looking at options now...
 
...and so it begins I started disassembly today on bike number 1. I am hoped to retrieve the broken kick start journal piece( thee second one!) from inside. But, in the meantime I have another complete engine which I will swap over if I cannot get the piece out. I am totally new to bike work and some of the nuts and bolts are pretty solid. Thankfully I have my Haynes manual too. The first real problem I have is removing the exhaust. I hace the front clamps off but I see no other clamps to separate the front pipes from the mufflers as the Haynes instructs...ideas?
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Petew said:
...and so it begins I started disassembly today on bike number 1. I am hoped to retrieve the broken kick start journal piece( thee second one!) from inside. But, in the meantime I have another complete engine which I will swap over if I cannot get the piece out. I am totally new to bike work and some of the nuts and bolts are pretty solid. Thankfully I have my Haynes manual too. The first real problem I have is removing the exhaust. I hace the front clamps off but I see no other clamps to separate the front pipes from the mufflers as the Haynes instructs...ideas?
View attachment 29674 View attachment 29675 View attachment 29676 View attachment 29677
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Problem solved ...dumb*ss...mounts behind rear pegs....
 
If you find the piece I imagine you could repair it by brazing it back on, though I have no experience with this and can't confirm the validity of that suggestion.

However, the cast aluminum is pretty porous and brazing uses capillary action to distribute the filler, so with an aluminum brazing rod and a torch you could probably reattach the broken piece.

Has anyone ever tried that?
 
Good question. If I fish the part I saw fall out I will reassemble it as a kick only. Tough decision to make. With it sitting out of the frame I will probably decide to put new cases on it. Right now I am trying to remove the front gear nut....I have nothing that will fit it ..anyone have a suggestion? Like what size is that think?
 
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1 1/4" socket works. Leave the chain on with the rear wheel on the ground to spin it off/on.
 
You might have seen my remarks, I did replace just the bottom half of the case. I was able to put the head into a old quilt in a big wet/dry vac, put apart the case, and reattach it, and get it going. only thing I didn't know then, was the cam chain tensioner should also be removed, and reattached. Might have saved me head aches 3 years ago if I would have known.

Perhaps I was driving too aggressively, meaning I was rev'ing really fast or something.. that allows the cam chain to have more slack, which is enough for the tensioner to get tighter. it broke next for me, on a trip to work. It never loosens after it gets tighter. (or resets it self). (as long as you have it off the frame. (if you decide to braze, or reattach with braces of some type, or replace the bottom of case... Make sure you use's volcomskater77 bolt diagram. It was on the front page, under that blue bike. its gone now, that was in our previous version of forum to this version.

http://www.xs400.com/threads/how-to-split-your-crankcase.4843/ volcomskater77
@ admins- Why did that run on the front page, and not get included into the Tech page?
 
I am going to attempt a rescue of the small broken part with a flexible end tube attached to my shop vac...it sounds sort of silly but it is worth a try for me...
 
So, I have removed the engine- a first step. I removed all the requisite bolts and such and lai
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d onto it's right side and it dropped right out. I tipped it up and to the side and clink, clink pieces came out. 2 PIECES! When I compare them to the broken journal it is obvious that the PO didn't even attempt to remove them. I was lucky that I was not on the road at 60 mph when the big chunk got sucked up into the works! I am now going to give it a quick checkup and cleaning and begin reassembly.
 

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