No start, no ligiht, no anything

[hjennings]

Inherited a 1981 XS400. No carbs but seemed otherwise complete. I kicked it over and you could hear and feel compression. Got a good set of carbs and bolted them on today. Changed spark plugs, put in fresh oil, added an inline fuel filter, added gas, and tried to kick it over. Nada!

- When I kick it over with the clutch in it's like it's not even catching anything. If I put in in gear and kick, it'll try to move the bike. If I put it in neutral with the clutch engaged, it feels like I'd expect.

- Just wasn't getting anywhere kicking. So put in a new battery. Turn the key ON and nada. No lights, no horn, no starter, no nothing. Of course I still tried kicking it over, but nothing.

- Checked fuses. One for turn signal is missing (clip is broke). Others are all there and appear to be good. Ignition and main fuse seem in good shape. I went back and checked them again after I put in the battery... fuses still seem fine, but the main terminal closest to the front of the bike was HOT.

- Doesn't look like any of the wiring has been cut on or anything. There are some relays or whatever they are that look to be hanging loose behind the battery area, but all plugged in and nothing appears bad by looking around.

Obviously it isn't getting any power from the battery. So whatever is causing that I'm going to guess is also causing the no-start problem. But where to I start?

Please help me chase down the electrical gremlins.

 

[arfstrom]

OK, first thing to get this started. If your kicking, leave the clutch alone. When you pull the clutch, you are pulling the boss off of the main crankshaft. So not getting the reaction you need for a start.

I couldn't tell if you checked the grounds? Clean them all up.

 

[hjennings]

So you start this bad boy with the clutch engaged? This is a first for me, but that makes sense.

No I didn't check any grounds. I looked over the wiring and nothing I saw was broken, melted, cut, or corroded. Purely a visual inspection. There is one ground right next to the battery. Has what looks like a good clean connection. I tapped on it just to see if it'd wiggle, but it didn't.

I didn't know if there was a common ground that fails, a relay that burns out, a fusible link, or something that'd give me somewhere to start.

 

[arfstrom]

You do want it in neutral. There are 3 safety's to make sure your bike is ready for start.
1. Neutral Light on? or
2 Clutch pulled for electric start.
3. I forgot, I might remember before finishing

a common ground that fails, a relay that burns out, a fusible link, or something that'd give me somewhere to start.

Under the seat, left side is one ground spot, another one on your engine from the neg battery post, and each of the turn signals ground out too. (usually not an issue)

You changed the plugs, did you change the wires? if not, just trim both sides .5 inches, and reset them. that will save you $2. bucks. There is a spike that is on either side of that wire (x2)

fuses still seem fine, but the main terminal closest to the front of the bike was HOT.

if a fuse is hot, that means there is a short. find a diagram, and see where the wire goes too. if it something is shorting out, that will be the fastest way to deduce where to look next?

some relays or whatever they are that look to be hanging loose behind the battery area,

all depending what those are, the Rectifier, and a Voltage Regulator are both looking for Ground though the bolting of these devices to the frame via the battery tray. so if they are not grounded, that may be posing its own issues.

Obviously it isn't getting any power from the battery. So whatever is causing that I'm going to guess is also causing the no-start problem. But where to I start?

Get your multimeter, and find out. Battery good? you said its new, was it charged up? has to be over 11 Volts to even pretend to start.

• 
  1. Test battery, over 11 volts? Continue to 2, If no, charge it, and start over
  2. Try conditions, Key on? Switch on? The switch has 2 off positions, and one on position. If no, change it, and start over with 1.
  3. Is the starter wired to run? push button, if not skip step
  4. Wire slap test? with bike in on position, a thin piece of metal will be attracted to the left side of the engine, and make a slap noise when it is active. (on) search "feeler gauge"

Lets see where that gets us. Willem has done up some simple checks, that everyone with a bike should be aware of, and we do have the tech section with quick access to info like this. The first 3 or so messeges on the board are stickys, one is the manual, get a copy for your bike, and go though it. It will explain the 3 safety things that need to be safe for you to safely start you bike. I know if I let my bike sit outside for 3 days with out any love, it will though a fit, and the only way to start my bike is to run, and jump onto it, and then put it in gear. That is super dangerous, and its nicer to have a hill, with the only problem being if it doesn't start you will get some exercise bringing it up hill again. Since your bike didn't even have carbs don't do that.

If you want to jump your bike with another vehicle, just don't have it running when your jumping.

If the fuse have been updated to blades, go ahead and pull them out, and re-seat them. If you have glass fuses, your box is going to be falling apart.

I have info for my 4 blade configuration in my photo album. Along with a new voltage regulator. goodluck
Tobie

 

[hjennings]

OK here is as far as I've gotten. I tested the battery. It is good. I hate to admit this, but I am no electrical wiz by a long shot. So I really have no clue where/how to test next.

I took the seat and tank off to trace down some wiring. Everything seems to be in order except for the front headlight. It is gone and there is a wad of wires in there. One clip was undone, so I snapped it back together. No change. There is the main plug for the headlight. Being the lamp is gone, it is unhooked. I'm going to assume for now that does not matter. There are two round female push-in connectors that are not hooked to anything. No corresponding mail pins so didn't mess with them.

The wiring all looks to be in good shape and I see no brakes or melted spots or cuts or anything of the sort. My next guess is to take the key area apart and see if I'm getting power to the key? Or is there an easier or more obvious spot to check first?

I checked the ground near the battery. It looked fine. I took it off, cleaned it, and put it back on. No change. I'm not seeing the one on the engine, but I'll keep following the wires and see if I can find it.

 

[Scorpio1963]

Did you check the black connection box where the 2 red and 1 blue wire is?I also think this where my ignition trouble is.Going to take it apart tomorrow and check for contacts.I could be wrong but I think the headlight has to be connected for the engine to run?someone correct me if Im wrong.

 

[hjennings]

Scorpio, could you be more specific? Where is this box located?

If the headlight needs to be connected, then that'd be it. That's the only thing on the bike that I can see that isn't connected.

 

[Scorpio1963]

The box in your 2cnd picture..
Also since our problems are very similar in my thread I was told to check all the connection boxes on the wiring harness to make sure they are clean and making good connection.also take and undo the wires from the post on the solenoid make sure they are clean.The gold wire on it and the gold terminal are positive.Try jumping it and see if your bike turns over
In the headlight you mention a cluster of wires,thats normal but check all the connections in there and make sure none of those wires are broke.Check with a test light for continuity on any connections in there.I believe some of those wires in there connect to horn and turn signals,also to the ignition switch.
Theres also a nice colorful wiring diagram on my thread which may help you.

 

[hjennings]

OK it's running now. Followed the wiring schematic and found a wire unplugged. Starts right up now. Two kicks and fires right up that way, too. Still a few issues.... Neutral light doesn't work, horn doesn't work, and the start button sometimes doesn't seem to want to work (though it worked better the more times I pushed it, so maybe just dirty).

This bike has been sitting for many years so I'm happy. Next step is to tear it all apart.

 

[Scorpio1963]

Glad you got it running you may just have helped me out,in the head light is a black connector box with the 2 red wires and the blue wire.I didn't look in there thought that box was somewhere else.Cant get to the bike right now but I will check it tomorrow if its not raining like hell like today.

 

[DARKMIDKNIGHTWARRIOR]

Glad you got her going.