Starting problems on an 83 Seca

[MerlinDudley]

An acquaintance has just brought an 83 DOHC Seca, which was running, a little roughly, when he got it, now, he is having problems with starting!
I asked him what he had done, to the bike before it started having the problems?
Before I go into detail on what he did, you need a bit of background on this guy! He hasn't ridden bikes for a number of years, then when he was riding, he only had British bikes (Dry Sump)
Now, back to what he did, he changed the spark plugs, and put oil in the engine! That got me thinking that he has put too much in, which proved correct, not only that he put 20/50 multigrade, in it (the same oil he uses in his car!)
Not being too familiar with oiling problems, I drained some of the oil out to the correct level, but the starting problem still exists.
Do you guys think that having a too thick an oil grade, will cause his starting problems?

Merlin

 

[Jeff0133]

Could be anothing...
Does it turn over?...does it have spark?....how clean and tuned are the carbs....carb boots...air box/filter clean.?

 

[MerlinDudley]

Hi Jeff, the bike itself is remarkedly clean both inside and out, any way I have had the carbs apart, and they are clean, all holes and ducts, are clear.
There are sparks, but they are not the best that I've seen! I have known bikes run on weaker sparks! It ras running, until he put the excessive amout of oil into the engine! Admittedly it was running a bit rough, with an occaisional misfire, when starting.
Do you think that the thicker viscosity oil, might be causing it to be a none starter?
You know slowing the engine rotation, on the electric start?

Merlin

 

[16VGTIDave]

I'd suggest checking for oil in the air filter and installing fresh spark plugs. After having cleared the cylinders of any oil by cranking it with the plugs out. Just be sure to not dead fire the ignition or you risk damaging the coils and TCI module. Securely ground the spark plugs or disconnect the TCI module.

Unless the engine became hydraulic locked with oil, it should be fine. I personally would also be changing the oil and using the correct grade of motorcycle oil - JASO MA. Wet clutches don't like friction modifiers as found in most automotive oils.

Also, be sure to berate your acquaintance for their actions, if they don't express an appropriate level of regret and humility. There aren't many of these old bikes left...

 

[MerlinDudley]

Don't worry Dave, I sure did give him the proverbial "Rocket up the Rectum" in the form of a size 8 steel toecapped work boot! The guy is "really Old School" the bikes he is used to date from the 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's and as far as I recolect, they are all "Dry Sump" design, and I suppose that he assumed the Seca, would be the same?
As this guy has just turned 80 years old, I have to use the Velvet glove, over the steel gauntlet! Saying that, I still gave hin what for!

Merlin

 

[dgoodsy]

once the oil is at the appropriate level and the spark plugs are not wet with oil (and oil removed from anywhere else that it isn't supposed to be) I would have a really hard time believing that 20/50 oil would keep the bike from starting. I would say the main problem is elsewhere.

 

[MerlinDudley]

On going, engine cleared of excess oil, carbs cleaned again, airfilter box cleaned out, and new air filter fitted! The battery had a full charge, but was quickly discharging, on trying to start the engine.
I put another fully charged battery on, and tried to bump start (push start) I tried this in second gear, and the back wheel just locked, pulled clutch in and changed to third gear, this time it actually turned the engine over, but not quickly enough to start the machine! The oil in now draining from the bike, and I'm picking up a new oil filter, in the morning.
I will be cleaning the engine/gearbox out with flushing oil, while waiting to pick up the new filter.

Merlin

 

[MerlinDudley]

Oil filter failed to arrive, I'll have to wait untill monday, now before progressing further!
However, the old oil that has been drained from the machine, was thick black, treacle like consistancy, but the good news is there doesn't seem to be any metalic detritus, suspended in the oil (a small electro-magnet, was used to "stir" the thick oil, and didn't pick up a single bit of metal!)
After seeing for myself how thick and nasty the oil was, I can well believe, that it was indeed the oil that was stopping the engine spinning freely?
While the bike is on it's centre stand, I put the bike in gear, with the ignition OFF, and was able to turn the engine over, by rotating the rear wheel by hand (second gear)
So hopefully, the new oil filter and JASO MA 10/40 oil should cure the problem?
I hope!

Merlin

 

[16VGTIDave]

As should be expected with any older vehicle, there may be more than one issue contributing. Often electrical is the biggest issue as most are fearful of it. Weak batteries, worn fuse blocks, corroded connections, etc are all common faults. Fuel delivery, mainly corroded or dirty carbs, are also a common problem. Vacuum leaks, valves out of adjustment, stale fuel...

 

[MerlinDudley]

I went over his bike, the same way I did on my own! I have checked all of the connections, cleaned a few of them up! The electric's seem to be in order, as I have done continuety checks on all of the wiring, all the earthing connections have been taken off and cleaned, and reattached to bare metal, then given them a smear of grease, to keep their integrity!
I grounded the spark plugs, then put the engine in gear (second gear) and turned the engine over, with the ignition ON, to check on the sparks. I got a decent spark from both plugs (a lot better than when I checked them before!) Everything else electrical has checked out too, I had the carbs apart again, and blown and pocked every hole possible, then cleaned the jets in new petrol, before blowing them through again, and refitting them into the cleaned carb bodies, the diaphrams, are like new, with no porosity, and the slides, move easily, and smoothly in the carb bodies

Merlin