Wrong oil?

[brockd]

Still running through my list of things that might be causing the machine to not start. After much head scratching, a thought occurred this morning - I changed the oil last weekend and the bike ran for an hour and a bit - when we went to pick it up after safety on Monday, the starter chain was spinning/slipping and it wouldn't catch. I checked everything last night - floats are good, fuel line is good, nothing's obstructed, battery's fine, sparks are a little sooty but getting good spark. Still she won't start either electric or kick. Then something hit me - maybe it's the oil?
I believe I put in Motomaster formula 1 20w50 conventional oil not realizing that there's a specific formula for 4 stroke bikes. Could this be the source of my problems? The extra friction protection causing everything to slip/nothing to catch/and no starting?
If so - will I need to do anything other that a simple oil change to the proper stuff?

Next time pay attention to labels...

 

[16VGTIDave]

Yes, that is the wrong oil. But, it probably isn't the cause of the problem. 20W50 is not going to have the friction modifier additives that an "Energy Conserving" 5W30 oil would have. Regardless, you should change it and the filter.

An oil change is not going to fix you bike, but be sure to get an oil that is JASO MA certified, or at least meets the standard. There are plenty of threads here about oils, so that is all I'm going to say on that topic.

You need to provide more detailed (yet concise) information if you'd like help diagnosing your bike. Is the engine turning over with the starter? The kick start? If so, does it sound/feel like it has compression? If so, are you using the choke? How much? Are you twisting the throttle? Holding the clutch? Is the battery charged?

 

[brockd]

Ok good to know about the oil. I'm well aware (now anyway) of what oil should be in there.

I have good spark, great compression, clean fuel, clean carbs, working floats and needles, clean oil (even if it's wrong), and a full battery. When using the electric start it'll turn and turn but nothing ignites. Sometimes it'll slip out and the chain will spin - hence my worry about the fuel. I've also tried the kick and get nothing from it either. We've tried choke in, choke out, with throttle, without throttle. Tried a rolling start in 2nd and got a bit of a cough before it died off promptly.

The most confounding part of it all is that everything worked great (minus a bit of a rough idle) on Sunday and I rode it around for a good hour over the day. It sat overnight at the shop and wouldn't start when we went to pick up and won't start since.

 

[16VGTIDave]

Well, based on what you have written, I can only conclude that your bike is saying you are wrong. If you have compressed air, good fuel, and good spark, you should have a running bike. Have you tested the compression? How fresh is your fuel? Have you gone over the ignition system?

Since the bike was running, I'm going to guess that the engine is flooded. Is there a strong smell of gasoline from the exhaust when you are trying to start it? If so, get new spark plugs, and test for a white spark when held on the side of the cylinder head. It would also help to hold the throttle wide open when testing the spark. this will help clear any flooding.

Then try starting the bike without the choke or the throttle. It should cough, splutter, and even bang out the exhaust, and then die. Then try starting it again with 1/2 choke and never use the throttle when starting with the choke.

Let us know what you find.

 

[brockd]

Exactly - which has me doing this -

Fuel is brand new.

I haven't gone over the electrical in detail. The fuses are intact but i should check each point I guess. It just doesn't make sense that there'd be an issue when I'm getting spark.

So key on, plug out, and use throttle with the ignition to clear out the engine? Methinks it's flooded a bit as well. I read that another way is to remove both plugs and give the kick a few good pumps. Same thing?

 

[16VGTIDave]

Both plugs out and solidly grounded to cylinder head, throttle held wide open (petcock set to run and vacuum line disconnected so it won't deliver fuel), float bowls drained, key on and crank engine with starter. Observe plugs and you should see bright blue-white sparks accompanied by a good snapping sound. The engine should turn over very quickly. 10 seconds on the starter should be enough. Don't go too long or you could overheat the starter and drain battery.

If you have a bright blue-white spark on both plugs, install them and put the bike back into running order. Then try starting with no choke or throttle.

If you use the kick start, do NOT try to kick all the way to the other side of the Earth! It is easy to break the kickstart pivots in the engine and that will cost you dearly to replace. Just don't kick it all the way to the stop and you will be fine. If you are hitting the stop, use a shorter kick!

If you don't have a blue-white spark, then you will need to address that.

 

[brockd]

Thanks very much, Dave.
I'll be getting back to it this weekend and will report my findings.