82 XS400J Maxim clutch slipping?? help needed

[Hellryder]

ok so after fixing the electrical part, I went riding my bike today and I noticed that in ALL gears I would just roll the gas, it would rev, but the bike wouldn't move along with the revs, it moved but very very slowly (feathering the clutch seemed to have good results, though). So I got to a traffic light and it stalled while I was downshifting with my clutch fully engaged...then it didn't want to start, so I left it cool off and after that it started easy but I tried to start riding, the revs would go up but there was absolutely no contact with the wheels at all. After a while thinking about what to do with my life I decided to test it an put it in second gear, release the clutch (it didn't stall) and downshift with no clutch to first gear, which it did with no problem. So I thought and decided to adjust the clutch cable using the adjuster near the lever and it worked, I managed to get home safe and sound, but I wanted to see if the clutch was really that bad, so I tightened the adjuster as much as I could, put it in first gear and released the clutch quickly to see if it would stall. So the result was that it didn't stall and kept running with no clutch (front brake applied) for 4 or 5 seconds until the engine died.

So my question is, do I need a new clutch, or just an adjustment? If so, how much would either one cost me (parts and mechanic) or could it be something a total mechanic noob could do using a manual and a few youtube tutorials? thanks, appreciate the help

 

[bcware]

Clutches are a joke to install on motorcycles.

Download the free manual from this site and read it thoroughly. I will summarize what to expect anyway.

Drain the oil from the bike.

Remove the kick start lever if you have one.

Remove the brake lever if it's in the way.

Pull the right side engine cover off (brake lever side); this requires, I believe, a 6 mm Allen wrench. Do NOT use SAE tools on your bike, they must be metric. SAE sizes will often almost fit, but simply end up stripping your bolts. Nothing should be terribly difficult to remove, but if it is come back on here for advice before you crank on it.

Remove the friction plates and examine them; if they're trashed it's obvious. You can, however, measure them as described in the manual.

The cost is about $55 for the cheapest name brand set of friction discs I have ever seen (EBC).

The worst thing that could go wrong during this kind of job is a stuck bolt, or a torn side cover gasket. Often the gaskets can be re-used, but sometimes they rip when you take them off. They cost around $10 to $15 for a single gasket.

I would attack this job in two stages over a period of days. Stage 1 is disassembly and inspection. Is the clutch bad? Did the gasket rip? Order what you need. Stage 2 is the install. Hopefully you can go without a bike for a week or so!

Pro-tip: use this opportunity to change your oil and oil filter.

Pro-Pro-tip: don't down-shift without the clutch; it's ok this time because your clutch is hosed, but just know that it isn't ok normally.

 

[Pork Chop]

The clutch is one of the first things I did on my bike. I had never done it before but it is relatively straight forward. I will add a couple of points to what BCWare says.

1. Try adjusting the clutch adjuster behind the plug down where the clutch cable goes into the cover. There are instructions on how to do that on this forum.
2. Consider replacing the clutch cable first & see if that improves things.
3. If you do replace the friction disks then you may as well replace the clutch springs too as you will be taking them out anyway.
4. Pay attention to the kick start and return spring on re-assembly as I messed that up first time and had to remove the cover.
5. If you adjusted the clutch cable at the lever or at the clutch adjuster then remember to "un-adjust" them when you put the new disks in.
6. Use a mineral oil as I am told that synthetic oil ruins the wet-clutch disks fast and you will be back to square one.

There are special tools for stopping the clutch from spinning when you are undoing bolts but I didn't need it.

I generally hose WD40 on nuts and bolts that I have not undone before to reduce the chance of ruining them.

 

[HoughMade]

Do DOHC XS400Js have kick starters? I did not think that they did.

 

[Hellryder]

Thanks for the replies and the instructions, they'll definitely help me even if I go to a mechanic this time. So today I went on my longest ride on the bike so far, I rode for 10 miles with one stop. And I notice that when I start riding it it's when the clutch slips the most, and after 3 or 4 miles, it looks almost 100%. So do you guys think it can be lack of oil, or maybe just the need to replace it? I think the previous owner changed the oil like 5 months ago.

PS: it REALLY sucks being on a motorcycle and not being able to accelerate faster then cars from a traffic light

 

[lhaolpa]

As said above,the clutch is not a difficult operation.Mainly just make sure the surfaces on the basket where the fibre plates ride aren't nicked or buggered up by misuse,then measure the fibre plates,should be at least 2.7mm or more,if not replace them.You can get them at Lytles racing,for a good price and replace the springs at the same time[about $10.00]so you get some power.tighten the screws in a cris-cross manner until good and snug.Be careful to notice how,and what comes off first,as there may be shims,etc when you remove them. Use a motorcycle oil or one rated for diesel service.I use 15w40 Delo for engine oil,but for only a quart or so,use whatever you want,as long as it's not for modern cars,as they contain friction modifiers which will make the clutch slip. lha

 

[Hellryder]

ok so today tried to ride it a bit and almost couldn't make it home. Last block couldn't go over 15 mph. Played a lot with the adjuster near the lever but didn't get any results. I'm really surprised as how can I be riding, then stop and turn off the bike and a few minutes later start it again and the clutch is always engaged and doesn't letthe bike go anywhere, despite the screaming??

Anyways, I think I'll follow your advice and install a new clutch: but before there are some noob questions that have to be answered:

1. how is the adjuster near the lever supposed to be for regular riding? fully tight or what?

2. the oil around the clutch plates is the engine oil?

3. the oil I use to soak the friction plates can be put in the engine or should be thrown away, and what type of oil should I get?

4. How much money are we talking about here, in parts (including oil and oil filter)?

5. How do I know that the problem is not in the lever or cable or maybe just needs to be adjusted?

6. Are all/most these parts something I can get at Autozone? Even that special Allen wrench?

Thanks for the help everyone

 

[drewpy]

I'd adjust the cable first as its the cheapest option.
Start at the engine side first, slacken adjuster, lightly screw in till it stops and back off 1/4 turn. Lock off

at the lever end, leave about 2-3 mm slack.

Next I'd buy a new cable and repeat the above.

also check what oil was put in the bike!

 

[Pork Chop]

Here is my $0.02. I have only done this once on an '81 so it is more like my $0.01.

1. Just a bit tight.

2. yes

3. you can use it. I got mineral oil for motorcycles and it works fine.

4. Alot less than paying someone else to do it.

5. Read points 1 & 2 of my original reply - important to try

6. Ebay did it for me

The manual has pretty straight forward steps to follow. If you get stuck, take some photos and ask questions on this forum.

 

[HoughMade]

Whenever I hear an account of a slipping clutch, my first question is about what the clutch adjustment is like- plenty of people have covered that here, so I'll leave that alone.

My second question is what kind of oil is in the engine? Drewpy mentioned this. The reason we ask is because modern oil that is made for automobiles is not proper to use in a motorcycle. Modern "energy conserving" oil for cars has friction modifiers which can promote clutch slippage.

If you have car oil or don't know, after adjusting the clutch like Drewpy said, drain the oil and refill with either motorcycle specific oil or diesel engine oil. These work for wet clutches. Give it some time to work and if it still slips, then replace the clutch.

 

[Hellryder]

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

Ok guys the problem was right in front of my eyes. Before I posted here I had only played with the lever adjuster but not the mechanic adjuster on the left side of the bike, behind that black little cap. So the problem was that, that screw was too tight, so whenever I had the clutch disengaged, the plates were a bit loose so there was not enough friction to take the power to the gears and therefore the wheels. So I got it very loose and worked my way in from there, and BAM! problem fixed and it runs like a beauty now. Oil is good, tires are new and have perfect pressure, wiring is fixed, brakes are fine, let the fun begin!!

Again, thanks a lot for the help and I'm sure this thread will help a lot of people and will help me in case I need to change my clutch system.

 

[lhaolpa]

That's great news,Bud,I figured that if you took in all the info and followed it,then you'd fix it. Good luck lha

 

[Pork Chop]

Nice one mate.

Posted via Mobile

 

[Hellryder]

Yeah, too bad I took it to Malibu today and on my way back it died on the Topanga Canyon, pitch black night. Had to call Road Assistance and is in the shop now. It had gas, so maybe carburetor, spark, or throttle cable? It did something really weird which was starting to rev way high on neutral while I was NOT touching the throttle or choke switch. I have a video if you guys think it would help I can post it here. Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[bcware]

If the revs are shooting way up, especially after putting some decent mileage on it, you may have a vacuum leak. I would check all of the fittings around the carbs and air intake to see if anything came loose.

Do you have an in-line fuel filter?

 

[Hellryder]

don't know about that, but I'll see if I can get that info. It's in the shop now and hope they really fix it because I'm spending way too much money on this bike (compared to what I thought I would when I first looked at it) and I just want to ride it until the Summer which is when I'm gonna get back to my country.

 

[bcware]

Something could have simply come loose. If there is no in-line fuel filter crap from the gas tank can block the carbs up too.

 

[lhaolpa]

I think you're finding out why most of the people that have these bikes do the work themselves.In my case,I was interested from an early age about motors,and was tuning up the family car at 12 years old,more out of need than want.We were poor and the old flathead motors at that time were easy to work on.There are courses at most community colleges on small engine repairs and automotive repairs.These can help a lot if one is a "city boy"and not used to doing they're own repairs.I'm not saying that to be condescending,as there are a lot of things that I'm not used to doing,like typing,that take me a long time to do. Common sense goes a long way,as does experience.Good luck,and if the shop fixes the bike,ask them what they did to do so. lha

 

[jmd_forest]

Even though your problem turned out to be a mechanical adjustment, as HoughMade noted, the wrong type of oil WILL cause slipping. I thought "the wrong type of oil" for a motorcycle clutch was pure BS .... until it bit me in the arse. The float needles on my XJ700 stuck open and I dropped a tank full of gas into the crankcase. After rebuilding the carbs and changing the oil with whatever I had available in the garage, the bike ran great but I noticed minor clutch slippage. I played with the adjustments one entire season before re-reading some posts regarding the problems with new automobile oil in motorcycles. Changed the oil with conventional oil and absolutely no slippage since.