Mine...if I can get it to start!

Orangetuesdays

Orangetuesdays

XS400 Enthusiast
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First off, hello! I'm from Bloomington, MN. This will be my first post on the forum but I've read through quite a few threads.

Well, my girlfriend got a hold of a 79 XS 400 awhile back. Unfortunately she didn't do anything with it except let it sit in her garage. I don't know if it ran before she got it or not. Well, I guess she's tired of looking at it or something but she said I could have it if I got it up and running. Score!

I'll start off by saying that I know little to nothing about motorcycles or automotives in general, but I am very willing to learn. I know some very general basic things and I've been picking things up here and there reading through the forums.

First off, I've been trying to use the kickstart since I don't have a good battery.

Alright, so the XS. Well, obviously it won't start up. It's been sitting for about 6 years from what I understand. The oil looks pretty good--nice and clear and doesn't appear to have any gunk in it, though I haven't looked inside. I just checked what was on the dipstick. It didn't have any fuel in it so I rinsed the gas tank out (looks like there was a little fuel in it and it condensed down into this really thick liquid) and ran some fresh fuel into it. I turned the petcock to "on" and the fuel seemed to flow in alright. There didn't seem to be any leaks or anything until fuel start leaking out through both the air filters. Great! I took the air filters off and took the carbs out. They were a little dirty but overall not too bad. I cleaned out the float chambers and gave the pins and everything in there a good rinse off with some carb cleaner and put the carbs back in. That fixed the fuel leaking through the air intake. Tried to start it up and still wouldn't go.

I've tried putting a dead battery in just in case it needed to be there to close the circuit but that doesn't work either. I've tried hooking up a live battery but I don't know if it'll work since it's not the "correct" battery. I believe the voltage and everything is correct on it and all but it's not the right size that fits into the battery compartment. I've used a multimeter to check and see if the circuit closes completely when the batter is in and it does. I've checked all the connectors and fuses and those all are in good condition too--no rust or corrosion. I'm also missing the physical "start" button. The spring is there but the little plastic button part is gone. I tried using a screw driver to push it but nothing seems to work there. I checked the sparkplugs and they had a lot of carbon on them, so I gave them a good cleaning and they look alright for the most part.

When I do use the kickstart it sounds like something inside is "spinning". I'm not really sure how to describe it other than it sounds like a wound up spring quickly uncoiling or something. This sound doesn't happen every time I try to kickstart it--only sometimes. Sometimes I'll get small puffs of white smoke out the exhaust when I kick, but also not all the time.

Any help would be awesome! Remember, I'm a complete newbie to this stuff and I'm more or less using this as a project to learn with. So far it's been a blast! (even though the bike still doesn't start up. lol)

Thanks!
 
Yep, you need a GOOD battery for everything to work. You can run a 12V car battery on this thing for a short while, provided it's on the ground and you aren't going anywhere. I did when diagnosing a no-start condition using the starter motor. You can jump the starter using a small-gauge wire and running current from the positive terminal of your battery to the right side of your starter relay. It may spark some, but will turn over no problem. The puffs and spinning is normal (at least from my experience) using the kick, especially for a bike that hasn't started in forever.

Also, welcome to the forum :)
 
My advice would be to get a manual for your bike.You can get them from ebay at a pretty good price. Good luck! lha
 
I am building my first bike & I don't know where I would be with out my manual, so download one and start reading.

The first thing I would do before wailing on the kickstarter is check that the engine turns over freely. Take the spark plugs out, put it in gear & try & push it around the garage.

Ether is your friend so if it turns over ok then you could get some starter fluid & see if it will fire using that.

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i would do a compression test to start off so you know your piston rings and the internals are good should be around 150 psi
if thats ok then if it was me i would get whole new set of points,coils,plugs and wires
then clean the carb a good few times need to make sure all is clean ....( i boiled mine in vinegar and water .... it smells bad so do it when your other half is out of the house )
pop a inline fule filter on the gas line it will help after cleaning out the tank

welcome to the forum and lets see some pics :)
and if all goes well you might be running :thumbsup:
 
Hi neighbour, So far all the advice is good advise. If your gf did what my wife did, this is just a start a long journey. (pending $$) Locally I have made friends at the local motorcycle shop, "Hitchingpost" aka www.hponline.com

My wife doesnt remember if she ever used the front brake. Oil leaked on one side. coated her boot, She always had a second battery on the charger.

otherwise my journey started with the front forks, (someone made her paranoid about the safety aspect) It sat in a garage in Faribault since 2003. So the gas turned into enamel in the carbs. (boiled with Lemon juice) over a turkey oil burner. a neighbor of mine gave me a KREEM gas tank plastic-izer liner. Charging system, needed the wires replaced, I followed Drewpy's wire program. for the Stator. I will find out tomorrow, if I did it right!

From there it was all about safety Front Master cylinder the oil had turned to powder. Both had to have maintenance done. replaced the line with something braided metal. Then Rear brakes were really jacked. I did screw up the kick start, so I have just finished the "bottom end rebuild" any luck my wifes bike will be running Wednesday this week. Good luck, don't be afraid to PM me.
Tobie
 
Thanks all for the advice. I've already downloaded a manual and I've been reading through it. A lot of what I don't have right now is tools. I really just have enough tools to take basic things apart and put them back together. I don't have much in the way of testing compression, doing timing and stuff like that, so I don't know if that's really an issue right now.

As soon as my girlfriend takes her R6 out of the garage I'll try rolling it around in gear to see if it turns over. Thanks again everyone for the help and advice. I'll post some pictures soon.
 
see your local parts store they might have a compression tester you can borrow but i got one for $24 at autozone
 
Here are some pics as promised!


IMG_0446.jpg


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IMG_0443.jpg



By the way, I officially own the bike now. I got it started up today. Both sides seem to be firing so that's good. Burned off a lot of crap when I first started it up. I didn't let it run too long though because it's really loud (not sure how loud it normally is supposed to be) and I didn't want to disturb the neighbors. Hopefully I get get off of work early enough tomorrow to let it run for awhile to burn off all the crap that's inside. Cheers!
 
Mine was really quiet stock, mind that my car is a '91 Oldsmobile with a chopped air intake. Check for holes in the exhaust or intake if it bothers you much, but that doesn't strike me as a biggie.
 
Pfffft bikes are meant to be loud. Couldn't help but notice your air intakes are missing from your pictures. I suppose that'd make it a bit noisy. If you can find replacement filters, I promise it'll run much easier (all other things being equal).
 
Yeah, I had them off before I took the pics. When I first put fuel in the float needles were probably stuck and fuel came out the carbs straight into the air filters. I took them off to air out for a few days. I actually just got it started up for the first time shortly after I took those pictures!
 
Makes sense. A few things to keep in mind, however:
Without air filters you are getting a very lean mixture. Your engine doesn't like a lean mix very much and it may over heat or cause damage
If you had gas flow out your air filters, you also likely had gas flowing into your transmission via the crank case breather. If it was a lot of fuel, you may have diluted your oil and won't achieve the best lubrication. Best way to check is to change the oil.
Have you cleaned your carbs out yet? Fixing a stuck float needle can only be done by pulling them apart.
 
Yep, cleaned the carbs up really well when I had them off. Didn't adjust anything on them or move anything in particular. I just took them apart, cleaned them really well and put them back together. I put the air filters back on too before I started it up. I just didn't have them on when I took the picture. I plan on changing the oil too when I can get the bolt loosened up enough to get it unscrewed. It's rusted on there pretty well.

So I went out after work today and started it up for about 2 min. When it first started it was pretty quiet but after it ran for about 30 seconds it seemed like it revved up on it's own and stayed that way. I've checked the throttle cable and it's not tight or anything. I let it run for about a minute/minute and a half and somewhere in there I started hearing "pops" too--sounded like backfiring. Everything got super hot in the short time it was running too. hot enough to burn my fingertips when they grazed the exhaust.. haha! That's what I get for not paying attention. But anyway, this is getting into stuff that I don't know too much about and where I could use a lot of advice/teaching. Thanks again everyone!
 
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Another update:

I took the carbs off again and cleaned them really well a couple times again. Didn't notice any deposits or anything thing dirty come out. I managed to get the idle down so it's not at full throttle during idle. I decided that it's time to sync the carbs.

I did a lot of reading before venturing onto this. I did a home made manometer to do this with and used Marvel Mystery Fluid as my fluid of choice since it's easy to see and doesn't look like it will hurt anything if it gets sucked in.

I warmed the engine up and hooked the tubes up to the vacuum barbs.. fluid was instantly sucked in. If I adjust one way it just makes the right (as you are sitting on the bike) side run lean and pop. If I adjust the other way, it idles down so far that it cuts out. Another observation was the exhaust. I put my hands up to the tail pipes and noticed that from the right tailpipe, puffs of air come out (normal of course) but almost nothing or very very very weak puffs come out (I don't know if this is normal). Does this indicate that only one cylinder is firing? I've read through the manual on carb sync and it really hasn't helped me. It seems like no matter what I adjust I can't get the sides to balance out. Also, another observation, both sides DO have some vacuum when I put my fingers over each vacuum barb (instead of the tube). I can't feel the difference between the two but I do feel both sides sucking my finger to the barbs.

If anyone can help out or has ideas, hit me up!
 
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Get a spark sensor that senses spark by touching the wire with the probe. You can get such a probe at some auto parts stores. They're usually cheap in price,but work well and are handy to have around so you can check quickly for spark,bad wires,etc. More accessible,but more trouble is a simple spark checker that plugs inline with the plug,then you start up and the light tells you if you have spark,also they're cheap,about 5-6 bucks. You should also check the timing,check for air leaks around the carbs,etc. lha
 
Will look into getting a spark sensor. Would I still get vacuum on both sides though if the piston isn't firing/there is no spark? The carb holders are old, hard and cracked. I don't think the cracks go all the way through but I already ordered new carb holders a few days ago. They should be here any day. In the meantime, however, I have put some rubber cement over the cracks on the carb holders just as a temporary fix to rule out extra air coming in through the carb holders as part of the problem.

I borrowed a timing light from a friend. It's a pretty old one and I'm not familiar with how to use a timing light/check timing. Do you happen to know of a good tutorial off hand? Also, what's the "induction clamp" for that's attached to the light? Sorry for being a noob.

Also, as someone who has never rode a motorcycle before but enjoys doing mechanical work, what would be the threshold for "excessive" vibration. Obviously there's vibration, it's a motorcycle. My girlfriend took it around the block and she seemed to think there was a lot of vibration... but she's only familiar with newer sport bikes (2004 and newer).
 
You can use a valve on the tubing to your manometer to restrict the flow of your sighting fluid by partially closing the valve. This will give you more time to react to the changes, and you can open it slowly as you get closer to being balanced.

Edit: For the timing lamp, the induction clamp goes around the spark wire. It should have clamps for an external 12v source or an internal power supply. Pulling the trigger lets the light get the signal from the induction clamp, so it will emit a burst of light when it gets that signal.
 

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