Oils to use?

[markjs]

OK well I have run some cheap stuff through and will for a little while longer but it's time to get serious. I will probably rack up a lot of miles on my little 400 this summer so what oil (Money is NO object here, and for an air cooled old motorbike one loves it should never be!), so what do you guys suggest? I'd love to go synthetic but are there synthetics that are OK with a wet clutch? I thought if I went natural, I always hear a lot of good stuff about Castrol GTX. I also remember researching it a few years back and finding that most oils sold as "motorcycle" oils are just a way to charge more. In any case it's been a while since I had a bike I loved, so, what do you guys suggest?

Edit: I just read an article that says that synthetics causing clutch slippage is actually a myth, and that synthetics will prolong clutch life, so I think I will go synthetic but not likely motorcycle specific. Brand suggestions? Should I go with a Castrol synthetic? Over the years it's the one oil (along with maybe Royal Purple) that I consistently hear spoken highly of in auto parts stores.

 

[16VGTIDave]

We have discussed this a number of times, I guess the search is broken...

Make sure the oil is JASO MA certified. This will ensure it is safe for the clutch. Any oil with the EPA's starburst "Energy Conserving" logo must be avoided or the clutch will be contaminated with lubricants and will slip.

After that, what ever your heart desires. I don't think it is worth switching a used, high mileage, engine to synthetic. A fresh rebuild, absolutely.

Conventional oil - Rotella T in the correct viscosity is JASO MA certified, inexpensive, and readily available at Walmart, truck stops, etc. The transmission shifts well with this oil and the clutch doesn't grab nor slip.
Synthetic oil - whatever you find that is JASO MA certified.

And that was more than I intended to write. Darn coffee!

 

[willem]

yea most new types of oil (read: invented after our bikes were made) like fully synthetic oils with all kinds of additives are not really made for our types of bikes. Probably won't hurt them, either, as long as you get certified wet-clutch motorcycle oils as Dave says, but you're probably just as well off using cheap semi synthetics.

but i'm no expert, I have to say.

 

[16VGTIDave]

Avoid the semi-synthetics. They are nothing more than a marketing ploy to separate you from your money. Have you ever heard the saying "A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link."? That concept also applies to oil. A semi-synthetic is NO BETTER than the conventional oil it is formulated with. Also, what percentage of the oil is synthetic? 99%? Or 1%? Both are technically semi-synthetic. I have yet to see a bottle that says "10% good stuff, 90% crap! Only pay 50% more!"

 

[Scorpio1963]

Once again the search is being neglected.It was about a week ago or so we brought this topic up.

 

[mcrissjr]

http://www.xs400.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9701

 

[Scorpio1963]

Mark after the last discussion we had about oilI just recently switched to the Rotell T.My trans never shifted so good.Something to take into consideration.

 

[markjs]

I'm definitely going synthetic. Amazingly even with my straight pipe I'm not running too lean, maybe on the lean side of normal but good enough for me for now. Thing is I do a lot of commuting on this bike and want to protect and run it as long as I can and a synthetic if MA approved is going to offer better protection that lasts longer period.

 

[markjs]

Went with Mobile One 15w50, and immediately notice a much quieter valve train. Before it was a typical sounding valve train noise that always goes with my DOHC Yamahas, but this is a significant quieting, so I highly recommend!

 

[16VGTIDave]

Did you get Mobil 1 bike oil that is JASO MA certified? Or at least stating it works with wet clutches? If not, drain it out NOW! Or suffer with a contaminated and slipping clutch.

 

[markjs]

Mobile One full synthetic for cars works fine in wet clutch motorcycles. Anyone telling you different is filling your head full of wives tales. I believe it is MA certified, but the guy at the local Honda shop, a guy I trust implicitly says Rotella T6 and standard Mobile One are both just fine. I just drove over 100 miles with no issues whatever.

 

[16VGTIDave]

Straight from Mobil:

"Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum. Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous)."

It's your clutch, so do what you want....

 

[16VGTIDave]

And more:

"Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines and use a common sump, which means the engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 motor oil has no friction modifiers, which could lead to clutch slippage.

The motorcycle oil also has more phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection at high engine speeds and high loads.

In addition, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 has a high performance dispersant/detergent technology for better high-temperature performance and engine cleanliness. Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is also offered in a different viscosity grade than Mobil 1 for passenger cars."

 

[16VGTIDave]

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40

* Maximum shear stability to help resist viscosity shear down in high performance engines and transmissions

* Exceptional thermal stability to help resist oxidation and high-temperature degradation

* Outstanding protection against wear of engine and transmission components

* Enhanced lubrication to help maintain maximum power and acceleration over the life of the engine

* Optimized wet-clutch performance

* Excellent low temperature flow characteristics to help minimize engine wear during start-up


Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 motorcycle oil meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SM
API SL
API SJ
JASO MA

Using automotive spec Mobil 1 in a bike with a wet clutch is a poor decision in my view.

 

[ken56]

No dispute over using a motorcycle rated oil but I have heard some varying opinions as to viscosity. My haynes manual shows 10w40 in one section and 20w50 in another. Just wondering what others are using. Also want some thoughts on synthetic vs conventional. Last year I used Amsoil 10w40 synthetic, this year I bought some Lucas 20w50 conventional but not put it in yet. Sitting on the fence with what to use. Any thoughts?

 

[Scorpio1963]

The 20-50 covential is fine as long as its motorcycle oil.I ran it in my bike all year last year no problems

 

[markjs]

Hundreds of guys who use that Honda shop and standard Mobile one, vs. traditional fear about clutch slippage. I personally attest the clutch slippage is NOT an issue with Mobile one, but that's OK, if you want to spend $12 a quart for the same oil I paid $6 a quart for because you believe stories off the internet over real people using the product year in and year out without issue, well that's your prerogative.

I asked an expert mechanic, one I've known and trusted for over 20 years and he said many guys he knows use both Rotalla T6 and Mobile one for cars in their bikes and all have no trouble. Add to that the fact he knows I do all my own work (including clutches) and he has no motive to lie. I don't know if Mobile One ever made anyone's clutch slip but I do know I've read many times that regular auto synthetic making clutches slip is just a myth and everything I've seen bears it out.

 

[16VGTIDave]

Mark, you are amazing. I'm not "believing stories off the internet", I'm quoting the website of the product you are using and the one you are dismissing. I don't want to spend $16 CDN per litre for oil. But it is a false economy to spend $8 CDN per litre, for an oil not designed for motorcycles, and end up with a slipping clutch, transmission wear, etc.

And what does your "expert mechanic" know about the chemical engineering of oil and the additives blended into oils? Probably nothing, or worse yet, he thinks he knows something. Who starts all the Internet wives tales? "Experts" like him, being quoted by people like you. I'm not saying your mechanic is lying, I'm saying he has nothing more than anecdotal evidence to offer. Where am I getting my information from? My father in law, who is a retired petrochemical engineer that worked with synthetic lubes for over 30 years and has a number of patents in his name, all regarding synthetic lubricants. My source for information is so far superior to yours, that you have no basis from which to argue. None at all. I'll take actual knowledge over "I ain't seen no problems..." every time.

The bottom line is you are using an oil that is not certified for use in motorcycles or with wet clutches, and does not meet the requirements that Yamaha set 30 years ago, nor the requirements of today. I hope it works well for you, but I'm going to use the proper oil in my bike, and that is what I recommend everyone else does as well.

 

[Scorpio1963]

And thats the end of that I beleive the knowlege from Dave has informed us all about.Good write up Dave.

 

[markjs]

Of course they want to sell you their more expensive motorcycle specific oil, and clearly you like paying a premium, that's fine. Fact is thousands of people still use Mobile One in their bikes and none of them are having clutch issues, nor am I. Last night for shits and giggles I searched it and confirmed, not a single person who was using standard Mobile One before that stuck with it has had clutch issues due to the oil.

Now, I'm sure these companies would have no motivation to mislead you into buying a more expensive product for no real reason other than making a buck now... Why would they ever do that...?

And don't give me that BS about "hoping it works well for you" I've seen a million guys like you online and nothing would please you more than for me to report a failed clutch, so you can go on about how you knew better, so you can lie to yourself about your good intentions but you aren't foolin' me, not a bit.